Woodie-newbie questions

[saumensch]

Hi,

till today i only shot Carbons and Alus. But due to some strange rules for tournaments i need to make myself some woodarrows.

First, i dont know nothing bout wood except it swims and burns   :rolleyes: .

Whats the difference between the sorts of wood and which one is preferable (most durable and not to light)?

Im shooting a 47#@my 30", 70" de/re Longbow, 1/8 past center with a 16 strand fast flight and CX Heritages 150 1n 31" with 5"fletch, 65 grain insert and 125 grain points fly like darts.

When i ordr wood shafts i will have to check their spine and therefore select groups, right?

Are there Woodadapters (like Inserts) in different weights to put screw on points on?

Do i have to laqucer the shafts?

Well, guess thats all for now, much more questions to come.

Thanks alot for any help.

[dhaverstick]

I get all my shafts from Allegheny Mountain Arrowwoods (www.arrowwoods.com). He is a wealth of knowledge on the subject and he can help you pick out shafts to start with. My personal wood preference is ash because it is tough and heavy. As for sealing the shafts, there are a bunch of threads on this site about that subject. I use Daly's ProFin right now but have used gasket lacquer, spar urethane, epoxy and acetone, plus other things.

Hope this helps,

Darren

[moebow]

saumensch,  I would recommend either Sitka spruce or Douglas fir.  Both very durable woods.  Sitka is lighter generally than Douglas fir.  I recently ordered 6 dozen Douglas fir shafts from Surewood and have NEVER gotten a better product.  Every shaft in each dozen were exactly the spine range and weight I specified.  I spined and weighed each shaft and found they were all as specified.

With wood it never hurts to recheck spine and weight yourself though.

There are adapters for screw in points but I don't know many that use them.  Seems most folks using wood use glue on points.

You DO have to seal the shafts, lacquer, or some type of polyurethane is common.  Be sure to test your fletching glue for compatibility.

Wood is fun and I think you will be surprised how good it shoots.

[ripforce56]

Just got into woods myself and building them is quite an addiction I must say! I always heard that wood arrows were not very durable so I stayed away from them. Although they may not be as durable as carbons  I find woods to be a lot tougher than I thought especially the differant pine shafts! I would really like to try some of the hardwood shafts too!

[Cromm]

It says you are in Germany is that right??

[saumensch]

Yes, thats right.

[Fletcher]

PO Cedar, Sitka Spruce, Douglas Fir and some of the pines have all proven themselves to be very good arrow woods.  Cedar is kind of the standard that other arrow woods are compared to, even tho it is probably the least durable.  Sitka Spruce has the highest strength to weight ratio of all woods.  It's pretty tough, but is also lightweight.  It works well with heavy points for increasing FOC balance.  The pines are pretty tough, carry good weight and have been serving us well for many years.  Douglas Fir has good mass weight, is durable and shoots wonderfully. It is my personal favorite.  Being in Germany. you might find the pine shafts from Bear Paw easier to get.

You will need to put some type of finish on the shafts.  The polyurethanes are easy to find and work with and perform very well.  I find the oil base to be more durable than the water base.

Wood arrows are usually made with glue on points.  The points are available in several weights and can be easily changed by using "hot melt" glues.  There are screw in adapters available, but they are heavy, long and ugly.

Spine is critical to good arrow flight.  I believe your bow shelf is actually cut out from center and will likely shoot a 28" arrow with a 125 gr point spined to match draw weight.  Adding 5 lb spine per inch of arrow over 28", I figure a spine of 62 lb, so you would order 60-64 lb shafts.

Enjoy your wood arrows.  I believe you will find them satisfying to make and shoot.

[john fletch]

I have been making Port Orford Cedar arrows for 45 years and I use a lacuer dip for finishing - either clear or many colors.

I know a lot of folk like the heavier woods, but I have always found that cedar stays stright and flies true and fast.  I am not totally sure on the whole physics of arrow flight.  I know that flks like a lot of mass - but the enegy is the mass x velocity and a lighter arrow flies faster.  The question is retained energy at a ditance.

The point is what are you using your wood arrows for?  If for target shooting - I would think that you wnat them to fly as flat as possible to get the best balistics. A lighter shaft and point would do better thee.  If hunting big gane - then maybe a heavier shaft and point is the way to get better penetration - just get close enough for a sure kill shot.

Lately I have been making a lot of Poplar arrows.  I found a source of stright grained Polar shafting and the cost is much less than cedar.  It is light and as tough as cedar.

The downside is two fold:

1. Poplar is more porus and less oily than cedar so it 'outgasses' when lacquer dipping - leaves little bubbles when drying the first dip.  To overcome that I use a thinner first coat.  When dry I snad lightly with 220 grit.  The second coat is normal thinner to lacquer ration and they turn out fine.  I just means moe time, effort and cost to get a good finish.

2. Poplar tends to go out of straight much more than cedar, but it is also very easy to hand straighten.  You spend more time 'tweaking' you shafts than you would with cedar - but the cost is significantly less.  The arrows shoot well and are a good alternantive for beginning shooters of folk who shoot a lot on courses when arrows are more prone to be lost (3-D courses in tough terrain or cover)

Finally, if you are in Germany, what is the most economic for you???  To buy gear over here in the US where I know prices are better - but then have to deal with shipping costs, duty and more time.  Or can you get fair prices on good material over there?

PM me for more info on making arrows or getting components.

[mand0ralen]

Originally posted by john fletch:
I have been making Port Orford Cedar arrows for 45 years and I use a lacuer dip for finishing - either clear or many colors.

I know a lot of folk like the heavier woods, but I have always found that cedar stays stright and flies true and fast.  I am not totally sure on the whole physics of arrow flight.  I know that flks like a lot of mass - but the enegy is the mass x velocity and a lighter arrow flies faster.  The question is retained energy at a ditance.

The point is what are you using your wood arrows for?  If for target shooting - I would think that you wnat them to fly as flat as possible to get the best balistics. A lighter shaft and point would do better thee.  If hunting big gane - then maybe a heavier shaft and point is the way to get better penetration - just get close enough for a sure kill shot.

Lately I have been making a lot of Poplar arrows.  I found a source of stright grained Polar shafting and the cost is much less than cedar.  It is light and as tough as cedar.

The downside is two fold:

1. Poplar is more porus and less oily than cedar so it 'outgasses' when lacquer dipping - leaves little bubbles when drying the first dip.  To overcome that I use a thinner first coat.  When dry I snad lightly with 220 grit.  The second coat is normal thinner to lacquer ration and they turn out fine.  I just means moe time, effort and cost to get a good finish.

2. Poplar tends to go out of straight much more than cedar, but it is also very easy to hand straighten.  You spend more time 'tweaking' you shafts than you would with cedar - but the cost is significantly less.  The arrows shoot well and are a good alternantive for beginning shooters of folk who shoot a lot on courses when arrows are more prone to be lost (3-D courses in tough terrain or cover)

Finally, if you are in Germany, what is the most economic for you???  To buy gear over here in the US where I know prices are better - but then have to deal with shipping costs, duty and more time.  Or can you get fair prices on good material over there?

PM me for more info on making arrows or getting components.

I totaly agry with John.

Just PM me and i'll give you the name of a shop (in your own country ^^) that sells German Spruce (same as Sitka) for EUR.99 a shaft with spine and weight control... far more economic than paying your shaft a trip accross the ocean ... and far more ecological too.

Today, i tend to buy my shafts in European shops, but still buy a lot bow in the US as most of the bowyer in the EU still sell bows for twice the price they really should cost.

++M

[Breakfast Boy]

As mentioned above, making your own wood arrows is VERY addictive.  I've been making my own wood arrows since 1995 and have really enjoyed it.  To me there's nothing better than slipping a home made arrow through a whitetail deer or watching one hit the bull's eye on a target.  It amazes me every time that I created something that can do either.  It's simply awesome.

Also, in my opinion, making nice wood arrows is a true form of art.  Unfortunately, too many traditional bowhunters seem to be getting away from it.  I think they're really missing out.

I use Port Orford cedar shafts, but have used pine, Sitka spruce and others in the past.  I prefer cedar thus far.  That being said, I have never tried douglas fir and have heard great things about them.  My next shafts will be douglas fir, just to try out.

Lots of us here are willing to help anyone wanting to make their own arrows, so if you have questions, don't be afraid to ask.


 

[reddogge]

If your bow is actually cut 1/8 PAST center Stu's Calculator would indicate a spine of around 75# with a 31" arrow and 125 gr. point , 11/32 for 458 gr. arrow.

If it is 1/8" less than center I'd say a 60-65# spine would do it.

Buy a couple dozen and weigh and spine them to get 12 good ones for tournament shooting.  I seal with wipe on poly Minwax.

Others may have a comment here.

[lpcjon2]

I asked this before Check out this
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=084881#000014

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Mein Freund Ich hoffe, das kommt recht.

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Was wird dies tun, ist Ihnen helfen, die richtigen Wellen. Auch bekommen Sie alles was Sie machen Ihre eigene Pfeile, Wellen, Kerben, Befiederung, Punkte, Kleber (beide Arten) und einige Poly / Fleck werde.

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[lpcjon2]

Mystic, you just scared me and impressed me in one post  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ipcjon2, danke mein Herr.