Elk questions for you elk folks...

[gudspelr]

So I had my shot at getting an elk for my first year bowhunting and shocker-came home empty handed.  I did however learn some things but also came up with some questions about the Wapiti...

One thing I just took for granted was that I'd hit the rut at some point during my time in the hills.  By rut, I always assumed it was accompanied by vocalization from the elk.  Is that correct?  I know elk have to breed by a certain time or their calving time will be off.  I hear a lot about "it's getting colder, so they'll start rutting", then I hear others say it has nothing to do with weather, but with the amount of light.

Someone also mentioned to me that the rut may not be accompanied by bugling at all.  They get smart to hunters trying to call them in, then add in wolves and there you go-no talking.  I was in a draw only unit and heard other hunters-even stalked some of them...but no elk.

Are my assumptions way off?  What are the actual answers for the rut and the need or lack thereof for bugling?

I was pretty frustrated with myself for coming up empty and figure I'm about the worst elk hunter out there (still never gotten one).  Then I found myself already trying to figure out what I'm going to do next year for my elk hunt...I think I'm sick with something...  I greatly appreciate those of you with so much experience on here willing to share with guys like me.  Thanks in advance.


Jeremy

[sstewa]

Elk don't always bugle during the rut.  But the later in the rut and the more worked up they get, the better the chance the will answer a challenge. Usually the colder it is the more active they are and the better your chances to hear them.  Cow calling is sometimes more effective.  Elk hunting is no cake walk and you may go many seasons without a kill.  You got the bug, but that's not a bad thing.  By the way, the #$&*@!^ wolves don't make it any easier!

[Desert Hunter]

I dont think there is any one thing that marks the start of the rut. Some of the bulls bugle early and some start late. The rut really starts when the cows go into estrus. That being said, all the cows will not be receptive at the same time. Thats why there is usually a few weeks of rut when the heavy bugling occurs. I have been on hunts where the elk bugled for weeks. Also been on hunts like this year where the bulls bugled the first few days and then were quiet for a few days.
I guess what im trying to ay is that judging the rut is not an exact sciencs. I have been fortunate enough to hunt the same area rather frequently and you can see the changes in the rut from year to year. One tactic that has worked well for me is to sit areas you know the elk move through, even during the rut. Dont use bugling and spot and stock as your only method. With the popularity of elk hunting, most elk in the wester US get pressured and change thier habits. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps. Also dont get discouraged. It took me quite a stack tags to bring home my first elk, and there is still nother animal that gets my blood pumping like elk.

[gudspelr]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.  And Steven, I'm with you on the whole wolf bit.  I was hunting unit 18 and hadn't seen any wolf sign-then one night I heard them howling.  Never heard that before and it's pretty hard to miss.  Ran into a hunter the next day who said the wolves I heard were just behind where they were camped.  Kinda creepy and definitely not helping the elk herds....


Jeremy

[slivrslingr]

If it makes you feel any better, I've been chasing them with a bow since 1998 and still haven't brought one home.

As far as vocalization during the rut, they only seem to talk when they are comfortable and relaxed.  Once there is any pressure they seem to get quiet, not that they won't respond by coming in quietly.  I've never been in a spot where they bugle like crazy, like you see in videos, but have been around bugling bulls some.  Cow calling, quietly and sparingly, has had better results for me, just haven't been able to get a shot off.  Stick with it, your day will come, as will mine!

[gudspelr]

Chris-

Yes, our day will come and yes, it does make me feel a bit better knowing I'm not alone in never having gotten one   .  I'm new to the whole bow hunting side of things and really enjoyed it-just need to stick to it and keep learning, I guess.  Thanks for the reply and I hope you get one soon.


Jeremy

[twitchstick]

Elk don't always get vocal during the rut. For me the more remote areas or limited quota(few hunters/low pressure) elk seem more talkitive. I think that the amount of light (day/night) will triger the rut but I also think the colder the weather the more active they become. They have really thick hides so they like the cool weather. The colder it gets around the rut it seems to make them more active. I rearly see a hunt here in utah that the elk get fired up. Are hunt early starts in mid August and ended on sept 17 which is a late year here. I heard only one bull greeting call this year and that was above average for this unit. It's a tough unit because of the presure,I have hardly heard cows chirp on this unit. Some units that are not as pressured and the stars aline I have seen some crazy action but I think that it rare to see it most years here. Don't be hard on yourself I hunted about 15 days on elk this year know the unit very well. I watched them all summer(lots of hours) and still tag soup for me. I know penlty of good hunters that have hunted hard for years and still never got one. I have hunted hard for elk since the late 80's and only killed a handfull with a bow, a few bulls and mainly cows. Just keep at it,it's worth the wait.

[T-Bone]

On the first day of my first elk hunt, I called in a respectable bull into 20 yards and blew the shot.  Five years later I am yet to release and arrow at an elk.  Killing an elk with a bow is a dream for me that I don't know will ever come true it seems.  Maybe next year.

[K.Morgan]

I have been Elk hunting all my life and my hunting season has been about the same most all those years. I have been in the woods of the northwest and had them talking to me the week before hunting season and then all of hunting season nothing. I have been in the wood scouting and never saw an elk and then hunting season had them all around me and I mean all around me. I am not sure about why or when they talk but I will say this if someone says they have it all down and know why I would put on boots. I have many friends that make a living on hunting seasons and they are like me one year they are loud and the next quiet and wearing sneakers. I have had a bull come within four yards of me and I didn't hear a sound. years before they sound like a bulldozer going through the woods. I have seen big bulls hear a little bugle and come to fight, and other times huge bulls run at the sound of a little squeal of a bugle. It all depends on them and the year. Not much help I know just sharing what I know of twenty five plus years of hunting them.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Pressured elk rarely talk in my experience.  Low pressure hunting areas and cold temps can lead to some spectacular bugling action.   I find that way to many hunters think bugling is the only way to find elk.  That and to many of them bugle without practicing and getting good, or knowing what the different calling methods are for.  I had one hunter pull up to a gate across the canyon from me and bugle horribly for almost an hour. The idiot actually seemed to think he would get a response.  I was on elk at the time and it definately did not help my cause.

I very rarely bugle and only occasionally cow talk.  Mainly when I make noise while stalking  and I want the elk to think I am one of them.  When I do bugle I am several miles into a unit where I won't be seeing anyone else since most guys hunt close to the road.

[sagebrush]

This year was a tough year. The only bugling I heard was at night. The hunting pressure was way up. None of my stands worked out. I found human tracks everywhere. I finally got sick of it and thought "I'm just going to go have some fun". So I took everything out of my pack except the absolute necessities, grabbed my bow and took off up to where I thought some were hanging out. It was about four miles in. Very steep. We can only shoot spikes and cows here unless you have a special tag. I like to stump shoot a lot. Sometimes it is more fun than hunting.Then I got into a herd and had a cow and a six point hanging around me. I shot the cow. Then I had to pack the thing out. I love elk meat. I know if you smell one get ready. Every time I smelled one I saw it or heard it shortly thereafter. They kinda smell like a barnyard. A little tip:to hunt them you must first find them. If you are hunting where you can see very far get up to a high point and sit down and watch the sun go down and use your binoculars. They like to come out when the sun is gone. Then the next morning head out to where you saw them the night before. Sometimes it works out great. I haven't used a bugle in years. I only rarely cow call.  Gary

[jhg]

Where I hunt the elk are very call wise.

 They are also reluctant to call, even at night, though they will sometimes. I see/hear hunters using bugles and cow calls in ways that are simply alarms telling the elk the hunters are in the woods.

I listened to one guy bugle the other day. The first bugle was a location bugle, the second a re-gathering bugle, the third a bicycle horn and the rest went back and forth, each one a different meaning bugle. How does that alert elk? No elk I ever heard is that psychotic.

The elk I hear are calling locally. By that I mean you would need to be withing 50 yards (or closer) to hear any of them, even the bulls. They are not dumb and they call quietly to not advertise location, because when they do 15 hunters run through the woods and converge on them.

Where I hunt you have to be an absolutely expert caller to sell the call. Anything else just sends them away.

Joshua