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Author Topic: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery  (Read 2485 times)

Offline MountainTool21

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OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« on: May 21, 2007, 09:52:00 AM »
New to the forum, reads well and set up is great!
I'm interested in ACS CX design bow and don't know how OL and A&H versions differ? Also, what rise is best exotic wood or aluminum?
Thanks
MountainTool21

Offline insttech1

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2007, 10:03:00 AM »
Ummm...hi.
OL is making the one-piece only.  A+H is making the 3-piece, and I believe one-piecers as well.

However, you posted in the classifieds.  You should try posting this in "powwow".

And welcome to the gang!
"When you catch Hell--DROP IT!!  When you're going thru Hell--DON'T STOP!!"

Offline Mudfeather

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2007, 10:20:00 AM »
OL is not taking any orders. You have to be on his list already to get one from him.

One of the guys from A & H is a frequent poster here. They bought the rights to OL's design and they are the same.

I'm pretty sure they are only making the 3 piece right now trying to get caught up. That is all that I saw on thier web site. Hope this helps.
"Dad, you and me are bow shooting huntin buddies OK?"

My son Kasey- age 5...Jan 8, 2007

Keith Bruner

Offline vermonster13

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 10:22:00 AM »
A&H will be making a stock 1pc in the near future according to John so there is hope of getting one in the near future.
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For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline MountainTool21

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 10:37:00 AM »
Thanks guys
I will list further questions under powwow section.

Online Rick Wiltshire

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 10:54:00 AM »
I received and e-mail from OL the other day.  He will be making a three piece for me when it is my turn since I was already on his list.

Rick

Offline R H Clark

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 11:31:00 AM »
Go to A&H site and get on the list. It might take a year but a lot of custom bowyers take nearly as long.

I have shot 4 different Adcock's of different lengths, risers and limbs. I like the heavier metal riser a lot more and the longer limbs but I target shoot more than hunt.

Offline Naphtali

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 01:07:00 PM »
You folks are tiptoeing around a question that has been on my mind for a while. The bows that are to Adcock's design, but are not made by him, are they Adcock bows?

I would think that quality control, artistry, and design are the ingredients in an "Adcock" bow. If Joe Smith, a competent bowyer, replicates an Adcock design for his personal use, is it an Adcock bow? (I believe this is not a patent infringement. To sell or give away the bow IS.)

This has zero to do with the quality of what is made in A&H. It has to do with what someone is buying from A&H.
It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it. Sam Levinson

Offline R H Clark

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 01:29:00 PM »
Naphtali,

I think the question has everything to do with the quility of the bow made by A&H. As I understand it Mr. Adcock didn't patent himself as a bowyer, but only his cross section design. Mr.Adcock has proved himself a competent bowyer and I feel that he has made sure that the bows being built are worthy of the name.There are other well respected bowyers that I will not name that have people build their designs. I don't think anyone getting an Adcock bow not made by Mr.Adcock's hands should feel cheated.The bows are very well made,check out the TBM review. It is NOT like some Joe down the street is making them in his garage.

Offline eagle24

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 01:34:00 PM »
I've had both.  A 3-pc ACS-CX that came from O.L.'s shop that I traded a few weeks ago for an A&H built bow.  Quality and workmanship exactly the same IMO on the two bows.  Both were outstanding.  I would have no problem with a bow that O.L. built or one from A&H.  I don't know this to be fact, but I bet O.L. would have never let A&H take over if they were not top notch.  I'm currently on the list for another bow from A&H.  I believe I am correct in that the risers are cut out with a CNC and the limbs are made using a CNC made aluminum form.  Materials used are the same.  The design is fantastic and a work of art, but I think what A&H is making is just like you would get from O.L. if he were still making them.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 01:58:00 PM »
John Havard who is the H in A&H is an outstanding bowyer in his own right. Bob Morrison made ACS bows for a while, OL does not pick partners who can't maintain top quality.
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Offline Lost Arra

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 02:10:00 PM »
my Bob Morrison ACS:   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    

 

 

Offline John Havard

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2007, 08:50:00 AM »
I'll offer a few comments here.  As mentioned previously, I'm the "H" in A&H Archery.  The original company I formed with O.L. in New Mexico has been shut down.  I have re-incorporated A&H Archery in the State of Michigan with my new partner, Larry Hanify.  I have been involved with the ACS design since 2002 and it's accurate to say there wouldn't be a patent had I not written it and paid for it.  I have personally built and tested all of the prototype bows and limbs leading up to the point where we are now.  While I won't claim to be the most wonderful artisan in the world I believe that I'm not too bad, either.

Having said that, however, let me make it clear that O.L. is an incredibly talented craftsman.  His work and the artistry of his product is wonderful.  It's just that he tired of trying to build a larger business with larger bow building capacity.  It just wasn't his thing.  Building a bigger business was the only way I'd ever be able to recoup my investment in the patent.  That's why I formed the new corporation in Michigan.  The new A&H retains ownership of the patent and all rights to the patent.  O.L. has a life-long licensing agreement from A&H allowing him to build a few custom bows each year using the patented technology.  It's exactly what each of us wanted and needed going forward, and works out well for everyone.

O.L. and Larry and I are still very close and work together.  In fact, all of the 3PTD risers and many of the limbs he has "built" and finished have come from the shop in Michigan.  Larry and I will continue to work with O.L. in any way we can to help him.  We will continue to share design ideas and work together on developing new products.  O.L. is continuing to chip away at the list of folks who have sent him deposits for bows built by him.

If you obtain a bow from A&H it will not be built by O.L.  In fact, he will never see or touch the bow.  He's not an owner nor is he participating in any way in the building or selling of A&H bows.  What A&H is intending to do is build and grow a company that can produce as many bows incorporating the ACS technology as the consuming public wants.  While it seems rather lofty at the moment given our humble beginnings, I'd like to believe that some day we'll be able to build 1,000 or more bows per year if folks still continue to want them.

Since January of this year we've caught up with everyone who has contacted us so far through about September or October of 2006.  Those folks who still wanted a bow have either already received one or their new bow is currently being built.  Our production capacity will continue to expand as demand warrants.

As the original founder of the original A&H Archery and as the builder and tester of all the ACS prototypes up to this point I can attest that the bows from A&H will compare favorably with those from O.L.  

Come visit the A&H booth at the Compton Traditional Rendezvous in June.  We'd love to have everyone handle and shoot some of our bows and form their own first-hand opinions.  See you there!

Offline vermonster13

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2007, 08:57:00 AM »
Can't get much clearer than that. I am one of the one's John mentioned and am awaiting my send me the money your bow is done e-mails. (it's being built now)
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Offline Herdbull

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2007, 11:51:00 AM »
John, Will you be at the Kenosha Bowman shoot this weekend?
Mike

Offline Cutty47

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2007, 12:18:00 PM »
I'm definitely sold on the A&H bows, and on John Harvard's customer service and integrity.  You can count me as among those who will be purchasing an A&H ACX...

Thanks for the tip on the one piece Vermonster13, I generally prefer those...

Offline John Havard

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 06:15:00 PM »
Hi Mike.  Sorry I missed you the other day, but I saw the picture of your fantastic turkey.  Way to go!  I should be at the Kenosha Bowmen shoot at least one day this weekend.  Maybe Saturday but I'm not sure yet.  Hope to see you there!

John

Offline sidebuster

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 06:47:00 PM »
John good explantion but I am a little confused now.  Who was the inventer of the  concept of curving the bow limbs like the end edges in a slat of a mini blind?  Was it O.L. or you. I have not read the patent.  I assume the answer of who is the inventer is stated in the patent.

Offline John Havard

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 07:26:00 PM »
Saul, O.L. is the one who came up with the idea.  He's listed as the "inventor" on the original patent issued by the US Patent Office.  I was his best customer (already owning 4 of his pre-ACS bows) and he knew that I collected and tested a large number of bows with an interest in what makes them tick and perform.  He called me, shared this idea with me, I went out there and shot the first one he had built and immediately saw and felt the benefits of the design.  That's when I suggested we form (the original) A&H and seek a patent.  

O.L. is a brainiac and one heck of a thinker.  He's the one that came up with the idea of using unconventional cross-sectional shape to add stiffness instead of using extra width or thickness as everyone else did.  

John

Offline the Ferret

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Re: OL Adcock vs A&H Archery
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 07:42:00 PM »
John you going to make it to Cloverdale this year?
There is always someone that knows more than you, and someone that knows less than you, so you can always learn and you can always teach

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