Sharpening Technique

[Zradix]

I know this has been beaten to death.
I know any sharp head will kill if put in the right spot.
I know sharpening your broad head either of the 2 ways I'll be speaking about kills.

This is more of a food for thought post really.

I have come to realize this site has a GREAT wealth of information offered up by its members.

I have also noticed quite a bit of the info is repeated as gospel without any real thought on the subject.

I've been guilty of this too.

So here goes....

Special filed edge vs Hair-popping shaving sharp....

I've read and understand the Ashby reports.
I'm sure smooth edges are the way to go on buffalo with their "stringy" hide.
I'm thinking about deer.

I did a little test on this a while back.      http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=087371;p=1#000000    

The more I think about the shaving edge the more I doubt it is the BEST way to sharpen a head. I know it works..and works well.

My thoughts are this.. When we shoot a head through an animal we are using the cutting edges to slice.
When we check our heads for sharpness by shaving hair we are not using the blade as it will be used on the animal. The shaving test simulates a "scraping" motion rather than a slicing motion.

I know when I sharpen my head with an 8" double cut bastard flat file I do NOT get a shaving sharp edge.

I also know when I run my shaving sharp edge slicing ( pushing straight )over the edge of a piece of paper or rubber or meat with just the weight of a few inches of shaft pressing down it cuts the stuff a little.

However, when I use my filed edge it slices 2-4 times deeper.
It does take some more force to slide the blade over though.
That's the kicker....

There is a technique and a certain type of file needed to get this good cutting filed edge as I mentioned in the linked post above.

Not trying to start an argument.
Not saying a filed is the best.

I am searching for the best.
I know both ideas work.

Just food for thought.

Good luck in the woods Gangers!

[dutch the deadly]

that makes good sense, sir.

[Don Batten]

Ok John, I'll chime in. Ive been huntin with stick bows since 89. up until last year, I thought same as you. I think it's because I never could get a head scaple sharp. Last year I talked to a guy from Mississippi and he got me to rethinking what sharp is. Since then, Ive shot 6 deer and one 204lb boar hog. All with bows under 50lbs, but with edges that are unreal when talking sharp. None of these animals ran more than 60 yards and all but one ran only 30yds. I can only attribute this to the edge of the head, as Ive shot a bunch before with file shapened heads , with good hits , that ran alot farther before expireing. I actually heard 5 of the deer and the hog crash and die and I can't hear for nothing anymore. Just my thoughts, but they do come from real life stuff. Don

[SS Snuffer]

John I got to agree with you. I just bought a KME sharpening system. I can get my Stingers VERY sharp, they will pop hair off my arm but they have no "drag" across my fingernail at all. I get them as sharp as I can with the KME (great tool) and then touch them on VERY fine crock sticks just a few passes. They still pop hair but also have a little drag and grab to them. So I would say you have a good point.

[ishoot4thrills]

"The shaving test simulates a "scraping" motion rather than a slicing motion....."

Not actually. The shaving test just tests to see the progress you are making while sharpening and tests to see how sharp the head is. It's not testing the scraping motion but it's testing the cutting edge to determine the sharpness of it. A sharp edge will shave hairs off of your skin, just like a razor will, if it's sharp. If it ain't sharp, it ain't gonna shave you.

[Steve Kendrot]

Chef's use knives to cut meat. They don't use files to sharpen em.

[bolong]

  This ground has been plowed so much it won't even grow weeds anymore.

[Butch Speer]

I believe the biggest problem, is that the greatest majority of people don't know what a really sharp edge is. It's something most can't do.  There is a world of difference between a head that will hack thru a hair or two & one that will shave hair from your elbow to your wrist & you can't hardly feel it. Take a razor blade & carefully run your thumb down it. It doesn't feel sharp but, it surely is. A file sharpened edge will certainly get the job done. For most, it's probably the best.

[joebuck]

The metal purity of the tool also is of huge importance.Lower grade metal that most stamped heads are made from have a higher grade of impurities therefore the cutting edge has lessor life. When the 440 stainless broad heads hit the market in last couple of years like Silver Flames, Bowhunters really got their first hands on what SHARP  quality metal can be. The sharpest knives in the world are not made of the same metal most of you shoot as broad heads. i was fortunate to train for 6 months as butcher in a large meat dept. basically I sharpened knives for 5 of those months. I know serrated and I know razor sharp.  IMO a buffing wheel sharpened 440 stainless broad head ,is without a doubt the sharpest broadhead out there now and past.  I roll my eyes and grin when I read an old timer scarf at the sharpness of the new 440 heads and refer his readers back to how he can get his " stamped" head to scary sharpness.  Flip Flop Gadgets, wheels or free hand ,it doesn't matter but what does matter is flipping that burr back and forth to microscopic flaking and your higher quality metals will do that. .......your lower grade metal are BETTER off serrated file sharpened because of their properties. So quality of metal is number 1 importance in determination of sharpness.

but both WILL shoot through 20" of deer tissue hide and
cartilage from a hunting weight arrow properly tuned........

one of the sharpest knives in the world is the Japaneese Single Bevel knives............OK that's another thread!

[stickbowhntr]

Good post I like and can use this help

[Zradix]

Originally posted by joebuck:
.....So quality of metal is number 1 importance in determination of sharpness.

That is a good point.

I've only compared Grizzlies, Zephyrs, and MagnusII,
broadheads in this fashion.

[joebuck]

zradix, As you well know those are great choices for heads you use. I also use a single cut mill bastard file to sharpen my Grizzlys and Magnus. touched up with light leather stropping with compound. they quickly transform into scary serrated sharp. It's no telling how much game has been taken by a file sharpen head over the century. THEY work.  Great thread and really like the way you laid it out....good hunting

[J-dog]

Bolong made a good statement - I laughed when I read that.
But I like threads like this as they are very informative.

I use all kinds of methods to sharpen from paperwheels (my favorite = easy) to files and stones. Where I hunt I come home every evening so if I thought a head dulled I can pop in the shop hit it on the wheels and it is super shavin sharp for the next outing.

I know at hog killins we use knives made of junk pot metal, you buy them at the hardware store for 5 bucks. They get a file edge but man they come out SHARP with only a couple licks on the file.

One other question what edge holds up better in the quiver?? filed or smooth. Again I shoot my actual hunting heads in regular practice on a regular basis. I know what my hunting arrows will do as well as I can just hit the wheels again quickly and have them back SHARP.

J

[joebuck]

Let's look at this from another angle. it take less energy to push a Razor Scary Sharp broad head through a water fiberous mass ( deer body) than a Serrated Sharp head. Example would be your common steak knives at home. You  can basically slice that ribeye in one whack with a razor sharp knife but have to saw 2 to 3 passes with the serrated steak knife. With more and more bowhunters dropping in bow weight, Switching to a Razor Scary sharp edge should be considered if total penetration becomes an issue with their serrated edge.

[30coupe]

Originally posted by joebuck:
 With more and more bowhunters dropping in bow weight, Switching to a Razor Scary sharp edge should be considered if total penetration becomes an issue with their serrated edge.

A well tuned arrow, file sharpened, stamped steel broadhead will penetrate just fine from a light bow. I shot my 46# Kanati last season and blew an arrow through my buck so fast I thought I'd missed. It was 22 yards and I was using a file sharpened Zwickey Delta on a Beman ICS Bowhunter. Zwickeys may not be high tech stainless steel, but they've killed every critter on the planet. And I can buy six of them for about the price of ONE of the new ones.

I check the for sharpness by sliding a rubber band (not stretched tight) along the blade. It's pretty similar to what I'm trying to cut (blood vessels) so it's a good test.

Nothing against these new broadheads, but for whitetails, a Zwickey or Wensel Woodsman will do the trick without breaking the bank.

[Over&Under]

Zradix

I really don't have anything to add here regarding your thread except that I think you have stated some good points, but I also agree with the idea that the properties of the steel play a big role.  

Actually I wanted to comment on the fact that I very much like the quotes in your signature, some fine words spoken right there!

[Doc Nock]

There is an absence of dissenting opinions here so I'll offer this and then back off and go away!    

First, logic is such a great tool, and logically, I can't argue with all the comments made in favor of file sharpened (which I assume to mean they're not smooth edged but have that raggedy edge to them?).

If slicing through a deer was the process by which archery-shot deer were killed, then this is a sound arguement.

I believe we're missing an important part here in that assumption. Broad heads kill by hemmorage. Bleeding is desireable and anythinjg that impedes clotting is also desireable.

Everything that science has taught me is that a clean cut clots slower. The more ragged tissue edges that exist in a tear/cut, the quicker it will clot and stop bleeding.

Given equal sharpness of 2 edges, one ragged and one polished. Polished blade cuts clot less, ragged cuts from serrated or rough edges, clot quicker.

Not opinion, but what has existed in medical and biology literature just shy of forever.

For your consideration...  

[Zradix]

Thanks!

[Zradix]

Doc Nock,

I've heard this point before and of course it's true.

I'm not a proponent for sharpening either way.
I'm just looking for the BEST way whatever it is.
The way I'm sharpening isn't a normal serrated edge. It ends up looking like a very very fine hacksaw blade with the teeth pointing forward.
The size of the teeth is very important on flesh.
Too small seems dull...too big doesn't cut either.

I think the clotting issue is moot when considering where the cut is supposed to be on the deer...through the heart and or lungs.

You cut an artery with a scalpel or a bucksaw it's going to bleed till there isn't anymore blood or the heart stops.

But please operate on me with a finely edged scalpel.

[eagle24]

Originally posted by Doc Nock:

I believe we're missing an important part here in that assumption. Broad heads kill by hemmorage. Bleeding is desireable and anythinjg that impedes clotting is also desireable.

Everything that science has taught me is that a clean cut clots slower. The more ragged tissue edges that exist in a tear/cut, the quicker it will clot and stop bleeding.

I agree with this 100%.  I believe a lot of folks try to rationalize that broadheads don't have to be razor sharp rather than spending time learning to how to sharpen.  I'm not taking a shot at anyone because I used to be one of those folks myself.  Bottom line IMO.......learn how to sharpen them razorsharp.  It's something anyone can do and you will not regret it.  You will only learn how much bigger the hole and blood trail will be with a razor sharp broadhead.