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Author Topic: Sharpening Technique  (Read 2511 times)

Offline stykbender

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 01:18:00 PM »
Fred Bear used a file and it works for me. My huntin pard can't get the edge so he uses a Lanskey. What ever works cause its respect for the animal that matters!
Other things being equal, it is the man who
shoots with his heart in his bow that hits the mark.
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For an Archer, to release an arrow is to release a part
of himself.
Fred Bear

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »
I like this thread. I am a shapening NUT with stuff. I can take a VERY dull kitchen knife and get it to "grab" your nail and cut some hair off. Sharp enough for our family use. I have had Magnus heads that dont "feel" that sharp but will shave hair ALL day long. One interesting thing I just came across was I was sharpening some simmons with my diamond stick like I do my knives. They would EASILY catch on your nail with a pull stroke but didn't seem to as well with a push stroke(the way the arrow is obviously flying) Any thoughts on this one?  BILL

Offline Paul WA

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2010, 01:56:00 PM »
Being a chef and owning a quality set of knives (Wusthofs) I can add that all my sharpening is done with a carbide sharpener and finished on a DMT steel. That being said I just ordered a KME for my broadheads...PR also the knives we consider to be the best production knives available are Global's, made in Japan and they are stamped
"I'm a trophy hunter till something else comes along"

Offline Doc Nock

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2010, 02:05:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zradix:
Doc Nock,

I think the clotting issue is mute when considering where the cut is supposed to be on the deer...through the heart and or lungs.
Excellent point. And again, NOT trying to open a can of worms cause I've seen near wars started over this topic... but "IF" we put all our shots through the boiler room and double-lunged all our critters, this conversation WOULD be totally moot.

Reality is that we DON'T. And as such, we need to be truly open-minded, challenge our own perceptions and prepare for the worst-case scenarios and then smile when they "go through like butter."

Good stuff and fun to banter differing views!  :)
The words "Child" and "terminal illness" should never share the same sentence! Those who care-do, others question!

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Offline joebuck

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2010, 02:08:00 PM »
That's an ole shaving trick I'm glad you brought it up Bill. It is Harder to shave hair by pushing a head straight down your arm versus sliding across your arm. The degree of sharpness a few of us are talking about and can achieve will shave hair effortlessly straight down. It is hard for a serrated file sharpened head to do this UNLESS it has been polish stropped by compound or leather etc. That stropping last leg is the key to file sharpening.Your knowledgable ole timers know this well. A broad head is a tool. It uses cross direction to cut. Serrated edges needs cross direction to cut or saw. Good Match. Razor Scary sharp heads just need direction.
Aim down your arrow because thats where it's going.

Offline Doc Nock

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2010, 02:11:00 PM »
Bill,

The only thought (you posted while I was trying to organize my thoughts)  :)  is that in conference with KME Ron and then with Ed Ashby, I learned that the sharpener I used made my blades "scary sharp" but they came out very dull... too fine an edge bevel.

They'd get dull one day in my quiver! The product I used put a 19* bevel on the edge and that fine edge was very prone to being dulled quickly.

NOw using a harder bh and a 25* angle, my blades, once sharp, STAY sharp way longer and only take a quick touch-up to return to desired level!

I like that! I'm honorary chair and founder of "ICSS" (or I can't Sharpen Shxx)... so where I am now, I am happy and saw the results on 2 deer last year that were like they were hit with my 7mm w/ ballistic tip bullets. IN sharp- OUT sharp. Much better.

Ok..help an ole man off his soap box afore I break a hip!  :knothead:
The words "Child" and "terminal illness" should never share the same sentence! Those who care-do, others question!

TGMM Family of the Bow

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Online Zradix

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2010, 02:52:00 PM »
Just wanted to say I appreciate the types of responses here.
 No "my way or the highway"

Lots of good and very reasonable thoughts here.
    :thumbsup:
If some animals are good at hunting and others are suitable for hunting, then the Gods must clearly smile on hunting.~Aristotle

..there's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun.~ F.Bear

Offline droptine82

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2010, 03:17:00 PM »
My experience is this.  I shot a doe last year at 12 yards with a Magnus Snuffer sharpened on a file.  I had to put another arrow in her as the first on did not exit and it was in the liver.  Two weeks later I shot a doe that was standing in the same tracks as the first nearly.  I used a 2 blade stinger that was razor sharp.  Shot placement nearly identical.  The arrow passed through like hot butter and she went down in sight and was recovered in 5 minutes.  I say being razor sharp worked better in this instance.  Put both arrows in the bread basket and I would not have seen a difference though.  I only know how to sharpen the snuffer with a file though so that is how i will continue.  I will just try to place it in a better location next time.  I wish KME had a 3 blade system!  I am in the "ICSS" club too.  Should be a board member!  I think it is best to do what works best for you though to be as ethical as possible.  I am going to try to test both heads and techniques on hogs next week so hopefully if they cooperate I will have more feedback.
JT

Offline snag

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2010, 03:41:00 PM »
That's a good point Doc. I watched a knife cutting competition once. These guys had a super fine edge ground. They could cut a hanging jut 1.5" rope with one swipe. But as a usable edge over and over they were not.
Isaiah 49:2...he made me a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

Offline joebuck

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2010, 04:14:00 PM »
Snag touches on a point that is so misunderstood IMO. Some argue Razor Scary sharp heads do not "hold" up that level of sharpness through an animal. Absolutely un true especially if the head is of higher quality steel. I have a video I need to dig up where I shot a knurly 220 # boar in the shield for a liver kill and then pull the head out of the body cavity and it pops hair all the way down my arm. head was a 440 stainless  razor sharp polished double bevel.  Now at a given point of length, a serrated teeth tool will cut longer than the polished edge but there is not a bow in the world that can drive a tool that far or mammal big enough to show it. But in theory it would happen.
Aim down your arrow because thats where it's going.

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2010, 04:16:00 PM »
Here is a different point.  Two deer back my wife shot a deer that was angling away from her.  The deer jumped ahead, the arrow hit the back right ham, skidded off the hip bone and angled forward through the deer and stopped in the front left shoulder and buried half way up the head into the scapula right next to the front edge.  The bow was a Darton recurve 38 pounds at 26.5" draw with a tapered cedar shaft left wing with a right wing grizzly 125 broadhead, that was first filed, then hit with a diamond hone and then lightly serrated with a grizzly file corner.  A one hundred yard blood trail.  While following that blood trail I found a doe that was hit with a large three blade razor sharp carbon arrow right through the lungs that was lost by other hunters two weeks before.  They claimed they had no blood trail. I found the arrow arrow near the doe, the broadhead was still shaving sharp and the doe had pieces of the carbon arrow still stuck in its mouth.  From this I can easily decide three things. 1. I will never use a carbon shaft, period. 2. Mixing left to right wing does not make as much difference on deer as people may think. 3. The actual edge does not matter that much as long as it is keen and sharp when it hits the vitals.  What I can assume from this is that large shaving sharp three blade lung hits do not guarantee easy to follow blood trails, that a straight flying arrow with a serrated broadhead will get good penetration and bleeding from a 420 grain arrow shot from a light bow, and that the results are similar to last 30 odd deer we have have taken, some with my single bevel Hills and some with Grizzly broadheads some were matching wings others were not, and some with zwickees, with nearly identical results on deer.

Offline gjarcher

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2010, 05:15:00 PM »
File sharpened? ... what grade/courseness file? What angle? How to know its not just a wire-edge rather than a rugged true-edge?

FWIW, I judge the sharpening technique on the exit side of the hole. If the broadhead maintains the edge and is still relatively sharp, then its a good technique. If it shaves hair going in, but is a dull butter-knife edge coming out, its a poor technique.

Over many years of experience, some bad, I no longer depend on drawn or filed edges unless stropped on leather and polishing compound to remove any 'false' edge.

My preferred edge is the convex edge (hamaguri-ba) found on Samurai swords. It is strong, durable, and holds the edge amazingly well.
 http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm

I took a cow elk at 25 yds with a convex edge on a German Kinetics Silver Flame that was a pass through, and the edge would still shave hair when pulled out of the dirt.
1958 Bear Kodiak Special 60#@28"
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Silver Flame Broadheads

Offline joebuck

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2010, 05:31:00 PM »
Your wife 's deer had more tissue and vessels cut because of length of cut to produce byways of blood. basically she shot it length ways. by gosh it should bleed.  On the other hand the basic double lung deer classic shot that is not a complete pass through is not a great bleeder. Especially out of a tree stand with an elevated entrance wound. This wound kills by collapsing the lung pressure at least and  hemorrhaging some vessels if hit. Some lung hits bleed better than others. IMO the bh edge has little or nothing to do with those two recoveries.

I shot a 105# doe last year that jumped at my string noise, kept her head up, looked around for seconds. Walked around the tree ,stopped and stomped her foot. And then leaned over and fell dead with in 2 minutes from the time I shot her with a Razor polished single bevel stainless head angled through her liver and one lung.    5 yard recovery and that was no spine shot.
Aim down your arrow because thats where it's going.

Offline snag

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2010, 07:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by joebuck:
Snag touches on a point that is so misunderstood IMO. Some argue Razor Scary sharp heads do not "hold" up that level of sharpness through an animal. Absolutely un true especially if the head is of higher quality steel. I have a video I need to dig up where I shot a knurly 220 # boar in the shield for a liver kill and then pull the head out of the body cavity and it pops hair all the way down my arm. head was a 440 stainless  razor sharp polished double bevel.  Now at a given point of length, a serrated teeth tool will cut longer than the polished edge but there is not a bow in the world that can drive a tool that far or mammal big enough to show it. But in theory it would happen.
I didn't mean that it wouldn't hold up going through the animal. I meant, and thought I had said, that a low angled edge is not as durable with use. In other words if you are shooting your broadheads into a target once in awhile it will need much more touch up than one that is 25 deg. They both should be resharpened. One will need more attention and will dull easier in your quiver.
Isaiah 49:2...he made me a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

Offline longrifle

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2010, 08:11:00 PM »
Home made tru-angle file set and a home made tru-angle leather strop with buffing compound, and you can get those heads shaving scary sharpe in no time, if i can't shave hair,i won't use it.
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Offline Bullfrog 1

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 09:49:00 PM »
Joey, bet that would not have happened with a snuffer. One thing about them I have found is the derr defintely know they have been shot.   BILL

Offline Don Batten

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2010, 10:06:00 PM »
Bill, thats a great point and suprised no one has mentioned it yet. If you get cut while shaveing, you don't even notice it but the bleeding is hard to stop. If you cut yourself on a jagged tin can, it hurts like hell and you can't wait to get some pressure on it and the bleeding most time, will ease up fairly quick. I think game animals feel the same tramaua and are running scared, where as the super sharp razor hit just makes them jump a bit and bleed out quickly. Everyone has a story that would make a case for both sides of this discussion. I wish all of you good luck, and good hunting. For me, it's gonna be the wheel sharpend single bevel until I find something better. DB
"The older I get, the better I was" Byron Fergenson.

Online SuperK

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2010, 10:19:00 PM »
Good point there Joebuck on metal type and hardness.  
 I've shot deer with both filed and polished/smooth "razoredge".  I'm sorry but I haven't been able to tell any difference in blood trails or quickness of death.  I don't know which type edge is "best" but it sure is nice to be able to whip out a 6 inch file from your pack and touch up a broadhead that just got muddy instead of bloody.  I found that out the hard way during turkey season after I had dulled my arrows shooting at a 'yote.  On the way back to the truck, guess what happened?  Yup, you guessed it.  A big ole tom just a gobbling his head off.  If you had asked me that day which edge was "best", I know what I would have said.
They exchanged the truth of GOD for a lie,and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised.Amen Romans 1:25 NIV

Offline Bullfrog 1

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2010, 10:36:00 PM »
Another thing I have noticed whicj=h is weird. If I am sharpening my simmons in a gatco jig with a diamond rod thye seem to get sharper if I go front to back on one and and back to front on the other side when I flip it over?? Told you guys I was a sharpening NUT. Also, angle is a whole different animal(pun intended). I used to take A LOT of metal off to use a LOW angle but I think now that a higher(even up to 25 degree) seems to be MORe durable and stay sharp longer.  BILL

Offline Bullfrog 1

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Re: Sharpening Technique
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2010, 10:37:00 PM »
Sorry for all the typos. Quick on the trigger tonight.   BILL

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