Confused about arrow flight

[buckeyebowhunter]

Hey guys, For the past few seasons I have been hunting with 125 muzzy phantoms, which i like a lot. But my arrows fly a little nock right with these points which obviously means they are a little stiff for this bow. So I thought i could fix this problem by adding some wieght up front, so I bought some 175 gr. field points and shot them out of the bow, Problem Solved, they flew perfect. So I bought some 50 gr. Brass inserts and replaced the old inserts in my arrows, which means with 125 gr muzzys I would still have 175 grains up front. Well i went outside today and shot the arrows with muzzys on them and to my surpise they flew awful and fish tailed almost everytime. I have no idea what this could be from. Just thought you guys might have some input..

[Shawn Leonard]

Make sure ya spin test them. If everything is not aligned perfectly they will not fly well. Spin them and if they wobble at nock or broadhead they need to be redone. Shawn

[chopx2]

Buckeye, swapping inserts (assuming the original was alum) only gave you about 25-30gr extra not 50.

Also weight in the longer tip vs. in the shaft where the insert is is exactly the same.

Assuming they spin true, try using a 100 grain insert and see if that improves it. That's gonna give you ~75 extra gra not 50, but sometimes it is a process of elimination. Also make sure you aren't getting some type of riser contact.

[buckeyebowhunter]

I wish brass inserts werent so expensive

[BEN]

Hey buckeye------if you want to try 1 without buying a whole dozen-----PM me with your address and I can send you 1 .....

[buckeyebowhunter]

Thanks Ben but I may just order some, What i dont get is how they could fly worse with the added weight, I dont understand why this would have affected them it seems as though all my arrows with the brass are flying this way, so I wouldnt think i glued them all in crooked..

[BEN]

OK----if you change your mind.......

I just re-read your post: are you left-handed? I'd think if you're a righty and they are nock-right---wouldn't that put you as under-spined? thus needing less weight at front?

Also, a possibility: maybe a bad batch of inserts; threaded off-center?? Maybe a stretch, but I'm sure stranger things have happened....just thinking  out loud here.......

[S C Mercer]

Remember that adding weight to the tip, as in the heavier point weight, will break the spine down faster with less weight added than adding weight inside the arrow shaft.  If you think about it, a longer piece of stiff metal INSIDE the arrow will STIFFEN the tip of the arrow unless the arrow is long enough that the arrow insert is PAST the front of the riser when at full draw.  Adding weight at the point, which naturally hangs out past the riser when at full draw, weakens the spine much better than adding insert weight.  Now, if you want to use the insert weight, you will need to experiment to see how much weight you will need up front to get the results you want.  For example, I like heavy arrows so I went up one spine in carbon arrows, then broke that spine down by adding 100 grain brass inserts inside the shaft and bare shaft tuned the bow.  It wanted 235 grain tips AND the 100 grain brass inserts.  You would think this is too much weight up front if you did the simplified approach of adding insert weight and point weight to come up with a desired point weight.  It doesn't work out that way.  Another way to look at it is if you want to make a hollow tube stronger, you fill it will a stiff material and the 'flex' is dramatically reduced.  Same thing happens with the LONGER brass insert.  Hope this makes some sense.  Frustrated me too when I first switched to carbon arrows.  Steve

[xtrema312]

Good points up there about point and insert weight differences.  With so little info on your set-up it is hard to tell if your really need to weaken the arrow in the first place.  I have a couple others ideas for you to consider.  

First off I have found that changing the timing on the flexing of the arrow can cause shelf contact from the vertical flex of the arrow.  This can cause all kinds of kick in your arrow flight.  I find this the most troublesome with carbons that are too weak.  You can try to adjust the nock to see if that helps.  

I have also found that too weak of a carbon arrow will fly nock right for a ways for a right hander with higher FOC arrows.  When tuning carbons I have found that a weak arrow can over correct in flight.  It starts off too weak, but the feathers over correct causing the tail to swing back the other way and fly too stiff looking.  I only found this by shooting paper with arrows that shot great and grouped great.  I couldn't figure out why they showed stiff in paper until I shot real close and then real far to see what was happening.  At trad bow shooting ranges of 10-20 yd. the arrow doesn't always correct back if it swings hard over the first few yards.  When I first encountered this, I kept stacking on the weight and it just got worse.  Then I went the opposite way making the arrow stiffer than I thought I needed and that fixed it.

A bare shaft can also help out here.  I have found with HFOC just getting the bare shaft to hit a little low and weak is not good enough because all that up front weight just drags the shaft to the target.  If it is not shooting stiff then I would not suspect too stiff.  If it shoots about right for impact, but doesn't shoot real straight in line, I would suspect to weak.  I now try and get my bare shaft to shoot about like a bullet with very little variation with a good release.

[buckeyebowhunter]

Guys, I am right handed shooter, I shoot a 50# recurve, and have been shooting 150 cx heritage arrows cut at 28 inches, I ordered them this way and they always have flown pretty well but always nock right just a bit, its noticeable when i shoot a bare shaft. I am gonna see if the arrows are stil flying bad this weekend. It has been fairly windy this week around here, how much will wind affect arrow flight?

[Steve Clandinin]

Alot of good pionts for you.As we all know broadheads very seldom fly the same as field pionts.One thing not mentioned is your fletch.I agree with G.Fred Asbell where I need alot of Helical fletch,5 inch regular fletch just doesn't cut it.I use 5-1/2" high profile Shields, my own design and have never had a problem with any combination or broadhead.I also order my shafts on the heavy side to compensate for extra weight up front.All the best

[BEN]

Have you tried shooting cock-feather in, or straight up?  I shoot w/the straight up position and have gotten better feather clearance and thus better arrow flight.  Also, check your rest material. I strted getting some weird flight this summer and finally checked my rest, The inside corner was coming unglued just slightly, but it was catching the point-edge of my feather when shooting.