Tree Safety Rope Question

[J-KID]

I use a Summit SOP harness.  I only hunt out of ladder stands and every time I get to the platform I have to wrap the tree rope around the tree before I hook up to the Prusik knot.   I don't know much about rope or knots, just fishing knots, so I need advice.  I want to be able to have the tree hookup rope already on the tree.  I'd also like to forego the Prusik and just attach to a loop.

Could I just use some 7/16 Kernmantle with loops at both ends.  I'd put the rope around the tree and feed one loop through the other (like the Summit system uses) and then attach my carabiner to the dangling loop when I get to the platform.  If I position it correctly I won't need the Prusik.

Two questions.  Will this be strong and safe enough?  If it will, what kind of knots for the loops?

[VTer]

The rope would work as you describe as long as there was always tension on it but I doubt that will be the case, especially when you leave it in the tree when your not there. I would have a length with one loop and put the tag end through and cinch it up and tie it off with a couple of half hitches. You could then hook your carabiner directly to the rope.

[Bowshot]

tie a figure 8 knot in your rope 4-6 from the end depending on the diameter of the tree you are in. Wrap the tree twice and then retrace the knot backwards. That will keep the rope at the correct height. Make a prussik knot on a loop of seperate rope, smaller than your main one, and leave it on the main rope. Tie off the bottom of your rope. When you get to your stand, slip your carabiner into the loop and climb up, slipping the prussik knot up with you. You can only fall the distance of your loop if you slip and have protection from the time you leave the grond. Go to  www.animatedknots.com  and watch how to tie the knots. It is easy and will not seize up on you. If you live near a climbing store, they will be able to whip up a couple of the loops for you. Tell them the diameter of the main rope and they will make them correctly for you. It is not a bad idea to have another with you just in case, you can use it to climb up or down the rope if the stand collapses on you. A little more elaborate than what you asked, a bunch safer. I had a stand break and was doing some scrambling before I got down, used some of the rescue knowledge from a couple of courses and use this system everytime now. Cost is about $25.00 per stand. I use 25-30 ft of rope and 2 loops made out of 4 and 6 ft lengths per set up.
Terry

[J-KID]

VTer, if I understand correctly, wouldn't the rope be tight to the tree and difficult to get the carabiner hooked to?

Bowshot, I understand your concern and have thought about a full length safety rope, however, with my ladder stands I'm too far from the tree most of the way up to be able to reach a safety rope and slide a Prusik.  I actually have the AnimatedKnots App on my iphone which is a great help.

[VTer]

As long as the cinched up part of the rope is to the stand side you will be able to get your carabiner on the rope where the tag end of the rope is holding the loop away from the tree equal to the thickness of your rope.

[Bowshot]

On those type of stands, I anchor the bottom to something near the base of the stand so the rope is beside the ladder, just a suggestion. I never thought about the app, thanks, its on my nerd phone now too!
Terry

[J-KID]

VTer, I got it.
Bowshot, I'll see what is available at my stands.  That would mean no more going up with one hand with my bow in my other hand!

[Hill Hunter]

I use that system and I don't understand your problem, I hook the rope above my stand, tie the bottom of the rope to the bottom of the stand, and just hook to the prussic knot and go, I see no issue in using the prussic and do not know how it could be any easier.

[Airborne]

I agree--Prussic knots are super easy and a great knot to learn--right up there with the sheep shank!

[TC in Spfld]

Why are you climbing with a bow in one hand?

[J-KID]

I've had a few close calls with climbing stands beginning with the old Bakers and fixed stands and tree steps.  I am fortunate to be able to use ladder stands now since I am hunting my own land.  Climbing a ladder is not much more difficult then climbing stairs.  I usually climb up with one hand (I could climb the ladder with no hands easily) and when I get up a few rungs from the platform I reach up and hang my bow on it's hook.  Then I have to stand on the platform and reach up and wrap the Summit line around the tree and get it positioned before I hook up to it.  So, getting the tree line wrapped above my head is the most dangerous part of the process.  Also, a Prusik does not appear to me to be as solid as a good loop would be.  After all, it is meant to slide and if I fall that is the last thing I want.  I'm just wondering about a system where I can rich up with one hand and hook up to a rope already there and secure.

[J-KID]

I know how to tie a Prusik.  Maybe I'll tie a line off high and bring it straight down and tie it off right above my seat with the Prusik at the seat.  I ca then hook up before climbing the rest of the way up.

The summit instructions say to tie a knot below the Prusik so it can't slip past it.  That is in addition to the knot at the end of the safety rope.  Doesn't inspire confidence.

[rastaman]

Climbing a ladder stand (or any stand) using one hand is kind of tempting fate.  Climbing a ladder stand using no hands would be worse than that.  Why take a chance?  A pull up rope is quick and easy to use for your bow and frees up one more hand to climb safely. Do it for your family if not for yourself.  We would prefer for you to be around this site for a long, long time!      

[VTer]

Originally posted by J-KID:

The summit instructions say to tie a knot below the Prusik so it can't slip past it.  That is in addition to the knot at the end of the safety rope.  Doesn't inspire confidence.

The prusik grabs the bigger rope almost instantly so in a fall you wouldn't even notice it. Especially since the tethers are designed to break away to lessen the shock on your body. I'm sure the knot below the prusik per Summits instructions are to keep the prusik from coming off the rope while not in use.

[metsastaja]

I tie my main line off to base of ladder.

add a couple of drop lines from your seat platform. for the bow line tie a 5"loop at the end of one of your lines. Pass line and loop between bow and string and put loop over bow tip and snug down. I have mine set so bow hangs above the ground.

[Shaun]

I also tie the bottom of my safety rope to the ladder of ladder stands. Usually to the side rail about 5 feet from the ground. Hook the harness to the prussic while standing on the ground and then climb and slide the prussic every couple of rungs. The bottom tie off serves only to keep the rope taught enough to facilitate sliding the prussic. It does not even need to be tied to anything to stop your fall. Also guilty of climbing with gear and bows sometimes instead of using a haul rope - but love having a safety line at all times from the ground to the ground again. No chance of falling - or at least of falling to the ground. Climbing and transitioning from the stand to climbing are the two most dangerous times for falls. Be safe, install and use the full system.

[J-KID]

Originally posted by Shaun:
Climbing and transitioning from the stand to climbing are the two most dangerous times for falls. Be safe, install and use the full system.

Think about all the ladders we climb without safety ropes and harnesses.  We carry up stuff to clean gutters, gallons of paint and bundles of shingles!

I agree that the dangerous part is the last few steps and transitioning to the platform.  I'll rig up so I can tie off before the transition.  Believe me, I know I am as vulnerable as the next guy to a fall and that is why I wear a full body harness and am questioning a static connection over the Prusik.  I don't want to fall someday and discover the Prusik sliiiiiips.....................!

[maxwell]

good info. here especially the how to tie knots web site.  Thanks Bowshot.

[maxwell]

Anyone recommend what size  millmeter rope to use for the stands??

Maxwell

[J-KID]

From what I can tell arounnd 11mm for main line and 8mm for Prusik knot.