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Author Topic: Question about Hill bows  (Read 576 times)

Offline dposalski

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Question about Hill bows
« on: November 22, 2010, 05:22:00 PM »
This question is a little different than all the posts I see on here about whether people like them or not.

I see the Wesley is 5 lams of bamboo and the Big 5 is four lams and the others seem to be 3 lams.  I have also seen Wesley Specials in weights around 40-45#.  Does it make a difference how many lams there are if looking at a lower poundage bow?

If I wanted a 100# bow I could see it needing to be more lams of bamboo, but if the weight is lower, does it make a difference.

Different lam thicknesses, maybe?
Custom BBO 50#
Samick Deer Master 50#
Browning Cobra 52#

Offline JRY309

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 06:32:00 PM »
A Wesley has five lams and the Big Five and most other models have 4 lams and the Tembo has 3 lams.But Craig will put an extra lam in a bow model when you order a new one.Like on the Half Breed which has 2 lams of yew and 2 of bamboo he can add an extra lam if you would like at an extra cost.And you can have a 100# bow without adding extra lams,it's just the lams will be thicker.You can also contact Craig at HH Archery and ask him questions,he always answerwed all of my questions.Like said some guys love and some hate them,but you need to shoot one for yourself.For me there is just something about them,I like the narrow limb deep core D-shape.

Offline dposalski

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 06:52:00 PM »
I love the look of them and my in-laws live a few miles from their shop.  I stopped in there a few years ago.  

I guess my question is"
Why would you add lams or subtract lams if you can get to the same weight and they are all the same material?
Custom BBO 50#
Samick Deer Master 50#
Browning Cobra 52#

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 07:57:00 PM »
They were stuffed in a garbage can along with the cedars they were attached to, and OLD either yew or osage self bow with those funky looking limb tips that hook over, cant remember the style name? It seems to pull and shoot fine to about 27-28" max. My buddy is a professional refuse collector and he yanked them out knowing I would want them.....

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 08:00:00 PM »
I'm probably going to get a bit of a blast for this, but...  Based on a lot of experience, owning more than 30 Hills and building a bunch of Hill styles over the last few years, my answer is flat out...  extra lams on lighter bows are of no practical use.  

The usual argument for them is increased smoothness, and makes excellent sense on heavier bows.   If you think of the working of wood cells/fibers in a bow, i.e. the stretching of the fibers on the back and the compression on the belly, it is much like the movement of marching men in a column.   The guys on the outside of a curve have to move faster/farther than the ones on the inside, who have to bunch up.   The wider the column of marching men, the greater this effect is.

If you think in terms of a thicker piece of wood, as opposed to two thinner pieces, you reduce that effect in terms of each piece of wood being able to move a bit less and spreading the pressure.   Over 50 pounds I think you can feel that extra smoothness...  go for a Big Five or a Wesley.   Over 60#, a Wesley.   As noted above, if you like a different model for appearance's sake, Craig will add a lam for you (for additional money).

If you're one of those sensible people who shoot 45# or less, enjoy your Tembo or whatever you like.

My other concern with number of lams is that glue is heavier than most good bow wood, so too many glue lines, or thick glue lines, can have the effect of slowing down the limbs, which kind of counters any benefit of greater smoothness you might think to gain from extra laminations.

Long as I'm babbling here, I'll add a couple of other thoughts.  I build a lot of real light bows, 30# range, and I frequently do two lams with excellent results.   Just on a whim, I once did a one lam and while i can feel that it is a tiny hair stiffer, it's still one of my favorite bows (all cherry... looks as nice as it shoots).   I do like an extra lam sometimes as an appearance factor.   I've often planned a two lam or four lam bow, then stuck a thin extra lam in it so that I could make the middle lam a contrast lam of darker or lighter color.   That's just me, though.  I like to play with wood.

Now, one final caution... all of these are just my thoughts, none are certified as universal truths, and if you are cranking them into your decision to buy a Hill, for heaven's sake, talk it over with Craig.  He knows me and may cheerfully tell you I'm nuts!  And, in the final analysis, he'll do what you want and make it work beautifully... from a 90# Tembo to a 25# Wesley.
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline LongStick64

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 08:03:00 PM »
To be honest I don't think you'd notice much of a difference if both bows were at the same weight. One may be slightly quicker or maybe slightly smoother, but you are more likely to see exactly the same result from two identical bows.
Primitive Bowhunting.....the experience of a lifetime

Offline straitera

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 08:25:00 PM »
Much obliged Dick for that perfect explanation. My thoughts (& more) exactly. MOF, being a Hill fan, I hope to find a 70" 75-80# Tembo asap if possible?
Buddy Bell

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 08:33:00 PM »
My first Hill was an 85 pound Tembo, it was smoother and faster by far than my early 80s 89 pound big Five, but niether were as fast and smooth as my 72@ 28" drawn to 27" three lam Schulz Hunter. the tiller and the trimness make more of a difference than the number of lams.  Saying that, I will say that my 68" five lam 57.5 @ 26" Half Breed made from a half breed Hill blank is nearly as fast as the Schulzes I own and maybe touch sweeter to shoot.

Offline dposalski

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 09:11:00 PM »
Dick,  that is kinda what I thought.  
I was seeing Wesleys around 40 lbs and many others at higher weights.  I read a bunch of your webpage and was highly impressed.  I have no reason to shoot a heavy bow and enjoy the light ones.  My next bow will probably be 40-45# at my 29" draw, so probably 40 at 28.
Custom BBO 50#
Samick Deer Master 50#
Browning Cobra 52#

Offline Wannabe1

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 09:30:00 PM »
David, I have a 29" draw also. Here is me and my 70", 45# @ 29" Redman. This bow is smooth and a pleasure to shoot. I can shoot for long periods of time without fatigue.
   

And here is my 68", 51# @ 29" Owl. Needed one at this weight to legally hunt elk in Oregon.
 

Both bows are extremely fun to shoot!
Desert Shield/Storm, Somalia and IOF Veteran
"The Mountains are calling and, I must go!" John Muir

Offline gorillabows

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 09:48:00 PM »
I just got a HH Half Breed from a fine gentleman who frequents tradgang quite a bit. That is why I am here looking for info the HH's

The bow is 100# @ 28 and has 3 lams of bamboo on it.
2 of the lams are the thickest bamboo lams I have ever seen on a bow. The third is thinner than the others.

So it looks to me like the thickness of the lams can differ, even within the same bow. Hope this helps.
Joe

Offline dposalski

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 09:51:00 PM »
I have a 50# bow that I am trying to save from a slight separation in the lams, so I will have that if I graduate to elk hunting.  I want something that I can shoot all day, very much like those you have.  Very beautiful bows.
Custom BBO 50#
Samick Deer Master 50#
Browning Cobra 52#

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 09:53:00 PM »
The Halfbreed, the Cheetah and the Longbowman's Choice are my favorites of all the models. I have owned several of each and all were consistently very smooth and, to me, exceptionally beautiful.   Unfortunately, I no longer own any one of them, as my strength wasn't up to pulling them any more, even in the 40 to 48 pound ranges I had them in.
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Wannabe1

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 10:02:00 PM »
I'm by no means an expert but, I'd say with your draw length, a bow that is 68" and 42-45 lbs would probably be good for you to shoot extended periods. Be sure to keep us posted when you decide on a make and model.   :thumbsup:
Desert Shield/Storm, Somalia and IOF Veteran
"The Mountains are calling and, I must go!" John Muir

Offline Irish Archer

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 10:02:00 PM »
Hey Wanna,

You wouldn't happen to have any riser closeup photos of that Owl would you?

Thinking about an order and was just wondering. Many times when you see an indoor flash photo of a bow, the colors are quite different. Just trying to find some natural light photos of some Osage Hills with dark contrasting risers.

I appreciate any help you have. Thanks either way.......Randy

Offline Wannabe1

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Re: Question about Hill bows
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 10:06:00 PM »
Randy, here is a link with complete discription and photos of the Owl.
 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=095550;p=1#000000
Desert Shield/Storm, Somalia and IOF Veteran
"The Mountains are calling and, I must go!" John Muir

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