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Author Topic: Skinny Bowstring Experience  (Read 1847 times)

Offline JEFF B

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2010, 06:09:00 PM »
i have a skinny string and i love it it makes the Bow real Quiet and Quick its on a royalcrown  fox 48# @28" and shoots axis 500 with a good out come im sold on them fer sure. and its all rasterman,s fault  :biglaugh:  thanks Bro
'' sometimes i wake up Grumpy;
other times i let her sleep"

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Offline Steve95

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2010, 06:10:00 PM »
I made some strings this year. It was hard to find trad strings and what you do find is one size fits all. Found an old Herter's String Jig at a yard sale, bought it in the package. Still had the Herter's string chart. Made a couple on the light side that work just fine. These new /old style strings/ with a 45 pound Bear bow! WOW ! They are all you need. I also used a few 40 pound Bear bows and got the same results.

Offline LBR

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2010, 06:15:00 PM »
J-Kid, sounds like an ideal time to talk with Mr. Beck and get yourself a free bow. 'Course you'll have to verify your results with actual tests....  :readit:  

There's always a "catch".....

Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2010, 06:28:00 PM »
yeah, skinny strings are also a good cure for both war and world hunger.     :laughing:    :rolleyes:

but seriously, and i can only verbalize for myself, there is a clear and marked difference in the way my lscs longbows feel between the time the string fingers slip away and the arrow clears the shelf, and it's a good and more consistent feeling ... for me.  

if it wasn't for that good 'n' stable feeling - repeated time and time again with each new lscs i spin for any one of my 5 or 6 bows - i wouldn't ever bother spinning and using endless lscs strings on all my bows.  

are my longbows quieter?  definitely, yes.  i ran planned tests with and without hush puppies on both 14 strand and 8 strand strings.  in all cases, the skinny was clearly quieter.  again, for me.

am i getting more arra speed with a skinny string?  heck if i know - or care!  i'm not one for taking long (over 30 yard) shots at critters, so i doubt i could tell (or if it would matter) that the lighter string is adding 1 or 2 or 3 fps.  i just don't care!

as said too many times in this and other such 'skinny string' threads, lsc strings are worth a try as all the opinions don't mean squat 'til you use one and find out for yerself if it's fish or cut bait worthy.
IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2010, 06:34:00 PM »
I shoot 6 strand 450+ on my 60# longbows and love them. Quieter, faster and less hand shock.
TGMM Family of the bow.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2010, 06:54:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LBR:
J-Kid, sounds like an ideal time to talk with Mr. Beck.
I'm looking forward to meeting him, Roger and the whole gang at BW.  I got to spend a couple days shooting with Darryl Quidort and Denny Sturgis Jr. (two great guys) before Compton's this past summer and I caught the Black Widow bug.  Those guys are big time carriers of that bug!  I ordered a BW PLV TD and, for me, a bad day shooting that bow is like a good day with my previous bows.  I then was fortunate to pick up another from a fellow TradGanger that was identical to mine and couple pounds lighter (which is good for my two son's-in-law that are scholarship athletes with weak bow muscles - Ha!).  I don't know how fast they are and I don't really care.  Out to 25-30 yards I'm good to go.  There were a few things I didn't like about both bows and the skinny strings fixed those problems.
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline 30coupe

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2010, 06:58:00 PM »
:deadhorse:  

Opinions are like...well, you know...everybody has one.

Shooting a traditional bow is probably 90 percent mental. If you THINK a skinny string makes your bow better, it will be! All the sophisticated testing equipment in the world won't change that.

I certainly can't disagree with Ken Beck, nor with Chad in terms of arrow speed. Heck, I don't even own a chronograph. I don't give two hoots about speed to begin with. On my longbows, I find an 8 or 10 strand D97 string SEEMS quieter TO ME. I don't shoot heavy poundage bows, as you can see from my signature, so safety is not an issue.

I have a Black Widow string on my Badger recurve, and that bow likes that string. I tried a skinny string but didn't like the way it shot on that bow. I'll stick with a 12 or 14 strand D97 on that one.

I would agree that a bow needs to have a string that fits that bow, which is why I build my own.

Do what you think works for you. This is one case where perception is important. Confidence in your setup is critical.
Kanati 58" 44# @ 28" Green glass on a green riser
Bear Kodiak Magnum 52" 45# @ 28"
Bodnik Slick Stick longbow 58" 40# @ 28"
Bodnik Kiowa 52" 45# @ 28"
Kanati 58" 46# @ 28" R.I.P (2007-2015)
Self-made Silk backed Hickory Board bow 67" 49# @ 28"
Bear Black Bear 60" 45# @28"
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Offline David McLendon

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2010, 07:12:00 PM »
Got the chrono, got the hooter shooter, got the results. I have what works for me and that's what counts. Never heard of not needing a new  bow? Then let me sell you a couple if you shoot LH. Good luck with it,you'll do a lot better making your own.
Lefties are the only ones who hold the bow in the right hand.

Offline 30coupe

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2010, 07:18:00 PM »
Okay, I've got to ask, what the heck is a Hooter Shooter?
Kanati 58" 44# @ 28" Green glass on a green riser
Bear Kodiak Magnum 52" 45# @ 28"
Bodnik Slick Stick longbow 58" 40# @ 28"
Bodnik Kiowa 52" 45# @ 28"
Kanati 58" 46# @ 28" R.I.P (2007-2015)
Self-made Silk backed Hickory Board bow 67" 49# @ 28"
Bear Black Bear 60" 45# @28"
NRA Life Member

Offline Jeff Strubberg

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2010, 07:23:00 PM »
I shoot most nights inside a 20 yard long, eight foot wide and eight foot tall concrete box.  

Y'all can pooh-pooh the difference all you like, but I am telling you that even (especially?) in such an acoustically live environment, there is a very noticable difference in noise between a 14 strand string and an eight strand string.

As for speed and efficiency, removing 20 to 30 grains of moving mass is going to result in a change?  Noticable?  Depends on how good your bow was to start with, I guess.  If you aren't seeing ANY change, something is missing.  That's comparable to a 5% or better change in arrow weight.
"Teach him horsemanship and archery, and teach him to despise all lies"          -Herodotus

Offline Robert Honaker

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2010, 07:59:00 PM »
Dang guys... I understand why people want to improve on something...if that is possible with a string that connects the ends of a bow together, but i'm tellin ya..a skinny string wouldn't last a month where I hunt.

You should see the frays in my ordinary string after a month of deer season. Heck Im scared of it now and it's a 18 strand!

My bow is quiet, stable and shoots where I look.
If your bow is not, it's not because of the string you are using.

Offline LBR

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2010, 09:56:00 PM »
Quote
Okay, I've got to ask, what the heck is a Hooter Shooter?  
It's a contraption that will draw your bow to a specific length and has a trigger with a release aid.  It's used to test bows (both kinds).  You can't get accurate test results without removing the human factor, which the HS does.

 
Quote
My bow is quiet, stable and shoots where I look.If your bow is not, it's not because of the string you are using.  
Thanks Bob.  I'm all for making something better, and I understand perception meaning more than actual stats in some cases.  I'm not trying to make anyone look or feel silly because they like lsc strings, I'm just trying to get the facts on the table.  

The facts are:  most bows don't show a noticeable performance gain--I think Mr. Beck's offer has been on the table for a year or so, and no takers so far--that says a whole lot;  in all these threads we see lots of opinions, but rarely if ever any real test results and/or apple to apple comparisons;  when you reduce the strand count you reduce durability;  when you reduce the strand count you increase the stretch/creep;  and finally there is no "magic" string just like there's no magic bow, no magic arrow, no magic broadhead.  There's no replacements for tuning and practice, at least not without trade-offs.

Like I said, if you like 'em, shoot 'em.  Just list the opinions as what they are, and not as facts.  That's all I ask.

If someone were to just take Mr. Beck up on his challenge, a lot of this could be settled.  I believe there's a reason he doesn't have any takers...but that's just my opinion.  :bigsmyl:

Offline Lee Robinson .

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2010, 10:31:00 PM »
My experience and chronograph TESTING has shown it takes about 15 grains of string weight reduction to = 1 fps.

As far as the KEN BECK CHALLENGE...To say the reason they deny the results is because he can't market low strand strings is simply doesn't hold water. ANYONE can make a low strand count string...including Ken's company.

DAN QUILLAN advertised low strand bowstrings probably close to two decades ago now. He used ff before going to 8 strand count 450Premium...yes, I said 450 premium, not 450+. 450+ came out later, and he switched to that. About a decade or so ago he used to order his bowstrings from me, and not long after I started making his strings he switched to 10-12 of dynaflight97 since D97 was a slimmer individual strand size.

All that said, I don't use lsc bowstrings myself, but I have little or no concerns about going down to 9 strands 3 ply dyanflight97 or D10. I wouldn't go below that myself though. Personally, I shoot 12 strands most of the time. I also have nothing against 15 strands either, especially when in the bush fighting briars and such. The issue isn't that significant IMO. I am not saying one can't go below that should they want to, but personally I think the risks outweigh the gains should one go below 9 strands of such diameter dyneema (hmpe) strands.

People should be skeptical and let the facts present themselves in order to find what works for them...don't please use some objective measure of facts like a draw marked arrow and a chronograph rather than subjective measures like "my arrow feels harder to pull out of the target" (which is more influenced by where you hit the target).

I also agree with Chad that if you are getting an "accordian" affect with D97 then the string wasn't made properly.

I notice that many light weight bowstring users are also using pure spectra type (a hmpe), which is a slick non-braided serving. I myself don't like that type of serving because it is more prone to slip than a braided serving and has to be put on extremely tight...and I am not so sure I would want that much side "crushing" pressure on a light weight 6 strand string that is ALSO stressed to close to its limit already. Just food for thought. IMO, if you are going to use a lsc bowstring, use a braided serving that is less prone to slippage and still put it on snug of course (but without having concern of overdoing tightness to avoid slipping). Stability is gone when a nock moves up or down. If you think I am kidding...try this VERY simple test, which only takes 30 seconds to confirm. Get a piece of dental floss...which is NOT that strong even. Wrap it around a spectra serving just one or two times. Then, take both loose ends of the dental floss and wrap them around your finger (or a pencil) and then pull it either up or down the bowstring. There is a good chance you will be able to slide the spectra serving an 1/8" or more and have a gap exposing the string fibers underneith. That is GREATLY REDUCED with a braided serving such as the #62 braid (there are other good braided servings as well).

One last comment. I do NOT want my comments to reflect on silient but deadly bowstrings. I looked at their website and from what I see their bowstring construction METHOD appears second to none, as you can see their flemish is tight and their bundles lay together in the body of the string (instead of being like two ropes wrapped around each other). Chad (LBR) also makes a well made bowstring. There are a bunch of improperly made bowstrings out there, but both LBR (Chad) and SBD do a good job twisting up their strings.
Until next time...good shooting,
Lee

Offline SEMO_HUNTER

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2010, 11:09:00 PM »
Ok Guys........Now my head hurts.    :knothead:  

Way too technical for something simple as a stick and string, and that's why I fell in love with shooting my Bear Grizzly, and now my home made 14 strand B-500 Flemish Twist strings. It's whisper quiet, not real fast, but accurate, forgiving, and a pleasure to shoot. Another reason why I like 12-14 strands is the serving vs. arrow nock issue. The arrow nock fits more secure without slippage on the serving in my experience. I know I could go to a larger dia. serving material, but I think that .22 dia. serving material is plenty heavy and the .30 dia. serving is $6 bucks more per same size spool.......so that made my decision on that issue.

To each his own, but this skinny string talk just goes right over my head. I do get the concept, but when your bow is shooting less than 250fps with a 500+ grain arrow, I can't really see any advantage of one string over another except the absence of excess noise, and hand shock. Which has already been described by a few members as tuning issues and not so much the string.
I can agree with that.

The original poster seems very convinced that this has helped his bow set ups, and that adds confidence to his shooting....that's great. If you believe that it's made a real difference by shooting a skinnier than normal string, then I'd say go for it. Because that builds confidence and Lord knows we need confidence in our equipment to do what we do, and how we choose to do it!
If you don't have confidence in your equipment or your shooting abilities, then you should not go afield with it, that's a recipe for failure.

I think I'll just stick with simple.   :thumbsup:
~Varitas Vos Liberabit~ John 8:32

Offline amar911

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2010, 11:33:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LBR:
Quote
... and finally there is no "magic" string just like there's no magic bow, no magic arrow, no magic broadhead. [/b]
I had a magic string, a magic bow, a magic arrow, and a magic broadhead once. The trouble was when Siegfried and Roy made them disappear when I was trying to shoot their tiger.    :dunno:   The tiger disappeared too!    ;)

Allan
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Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2010, 06:22:00 AM »
this skinny string thing has been hacked to death a zillion times, and it's starting to get pretty lame.  

the claims about using lsc strings drifts from curing world hunger to snake oil.  there is a middle ground, though, and i'm convinced that not everyone has the bow, the arrow, the form, and the right lsc string to produce an effective result.

don't spout words unless you've put in a serious effort to do the proper testing/trialing yerself.  this is not a project for everyone, it takes time, effort, money ... and some smarts.  

other than that, those who absolutely are physically (not mentally) seeing a benefit(s) of sorts will decide whether or not to keep using lsc strings.  i'm in that camp and i do feel & hear a physical benefit that has nothing to do with arrow speed.

the absolute bottom line is that YOU NEED a decent string that produces consistent, stable results for YOU and YOUR bow(s).  and it sure as heck don't matter whether that string is 18 strands or 8 strands.

can i get an amen, my brothers and sisters of the stick 'n' string bow?      :notworthy:
IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2010, 06:50:00 AM »
Amen Brother!  Preach it!

I obviously opened a can of worms for some.  This is unfortunate because all this talk about Hooter Shooters and speed misses the point of my original post and will likely dissuade a reader who might truly see positive results from a string with fewer or more strands.  I was just chronicling my perception of my experience for future readers that might want to research the subject.  I didn't expect anyone would be changing the subject so they could bring dogs to the fight.

As an academic and a psychologist I critically review research methodology and statistics every day.  I'm well aware of the need for empiricism, however, I trust people's perceptions (most of the time).  That is the real world we live in.  I have benefited from the 8 strand strings with my two bows.  If one of the bows shot the same I'd go back to the stock string in a heartbeat.  If I tried a Dacron string and perceived an advantage I'd switch to that.  You guys who are touting scientific testing adjust your brace height, nock point, shelf material and probably use string silencers - and I know you have not tested all those adjustments using scientific procedures.  It's all about tuning and perception is very much a part of that process.  Otherwise, every bow would be tuned on a machine and be delivered ready to go. Amen?
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2010, 06:55:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by J-KID:
Amen Brother!  Preach it!

I obviously opened a can of worms for some.  This is unfortunate because all this talk about Hooter Shooters and speed misses the point of my original post and will likely dissuade a reader who might truly see positive results from a string with fewer or more strands.  I was just chronicling my perception of my experience for future readers that might want to research the subject.  I didn't expect anyone would be changing the subject so they could bring dogs to the fight.

As an academic and a psychologist I critically review research methodology and statistics every day.  I'm well aware of the need for empiricism, however, I trust people's perceptions (most of the time).  That is the real world we live in.  I have benefited from the 8 strand strings with my two bows.  If one of the bows shot the same I'd go back to the stock string in a heartbeat.  If I tried a Dacron string and perceived an advantage I'd switch to that.  It's all about tuning and perception is very much a part of that process.  Otherwise, every bow would be tuned on a machine and be delivered ready to go. Amen?
and amen i say to you, brother jay!    :thumbsup:     :notworthy:
IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline Turkeys Fear Me

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2010, 07:30:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 30coupe:
Okay, I've got to ask, what the heck is a Hooter Shooter?
great pic, but no wheelies or chickadees, pleez.  :D

Offline Mike Vines

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Re: Skinny Bowstring Experience
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2010, 07:45:00 AM »
VERY nice form
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