104 # yote in MO??

[-Achilles-]

Well I have been seeing a huge dog(or what I thought was a dog) where I hunt in missouri.I've seen it at least once a year the last few years.I always thought it was an alaskan malamute but now I may reconsider.The thing is HUGE and very wide bodied.100 pounds for sure.

[TommyBoy]

While we are on the topic of coyotes, does anybody else in MO notice them getting alot bolder? I have been walking my bird dogs on MDC land in the evenings to give them some exercise for the past 12 years. Usually in the winter, so it's always at night.  I've always heard coyotes around me in the past, but this year there's a lot more AND THEY ARE HOLDING THEIR GROUND - not running away like normal. Eventually they take off, but we are right on top of them before they do (within 30 yards). Even had one growl menacingly at us.  My dogs are always off-leash, so this made me take notice. In fact, we had a couple coyotes flanking us on the other side of a windbreak. They paralleled our steps for more than a quarter mile.

Anyone else notice behavior like this. It's got me concerned enough that I carry a pistol on my walks now. Never did that in 12 years.

[TDHunter]

Looks like my old dog!   The DNA test may have been smoking something special

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thats a wolf or husky mix. No way is that a coyote

[TommyBoy]

It was DNA tested Roger. It's a yote.

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by TommyBoy:
AND THEY ARE HOLDING THEIR GROUND...Anyone else notice behavior like this.

They're getting that bold here in CT too.  I've talked to two people who have lost their dogs, presumably to coyotes.  Same story in both cases: out walking the dogs in the woods with occasional glimpses of coyotes.  'yote eventually gets in closer and draws the dog off - dog never seen again.  Can't really confirm their stories, but hearing the same thing from two sources has my attention.

I've seen larger coyotes the last few years, but not close to 100# - more like a small to medium sized german shepherd.  The fact that they're standing still to watch me rather than running off before I see them is troubling.

Nothing good can happen when a predator loses its fear of man.

[waknstak IL]

The MDC can say what they want. I'm not buying that being a pure coyote either.

[TxAg]

BS flag is up.

Can claim it was DNA tested all they want, still doesn't mean they're telling the truth.

[Huntschool]

I am not going to solve this debate but here are some things to consider.. (this is professional commentary...  don't shoot me!

1. Color has nothing to do with anything.  There are color phases in all living biota.

2. Size, as well, is not fixed.  Bergman’s Law states basically that over North to South distribution of a species the northern most will be heavier and somewhat larger than those in the south. This has to do with climate and species adaptation.  Look at our deer.  Borealis (northern most sub species) are huge compared to Texanus sub species...  and I have not added Key deer. Not that there are not specific individuals in any sub species that break the rules.

3. DNA analysis has come a long way.  I had quail blind tested, by a lab, that had been in the wild for four generations and the lab found pen reared markers in their examination.  I knew it and was checking the effectiveness of their analysis.

4. As biological professionals we have come a long way in determining ancestry and species lines.  This shows itself even in RMEF provision for reintroduction as well as NWTF.

I am not defending The MO Department, however, they have a great reputation and I truly doubt they would do anything to change that.

I know there are "one off's" that can contradict almost anything but in general coyotes in a pack enjoy a bit of dog for lunch.  There are stories all over about this type of thing.  Wolves are the same. I can only recall one instance of a crossbred coyote being confirmed and for the life of me I am unable to find that in my data files. Check with some of the upland guys that have been grouse and woodcock hunting in MN the past two years.

Personally, in both pictures, I do not see a wolf muzzle on this beast.  His head and facial structure look like coyote to me....

I am going to defer to the DNA lab……

[TommyBoy]

Jeremy,

Ya, when they lose their fear of man, things change. When I start to hear them calling, I call my dogs back in within 30 yards. They are shorthairs, so they are wide ranging - especially the little 45lb female. I'm just afraid the yotes are going to do a "rope a dope" - a single getting one of my dogs to chase him back to the pack.

[Jeff Strubberg]

That is one very well groomed coyote.

[Ken Taylor]

Huntschool, I am with you on this one.

[snag]

I love those coyotes that are "bolder". Gives me a chance to reach out "touch" one!    

[Jesse Minish]

If they say its a coyote fine. To me it looks more like the wolves Ive seen in Alaska and Canada but that doesn't really matter. Here is a pic I took bear hunting in Canada of a about a 60# wolf. Most people thought it was a coyote when they first looked at it...
 

[Blackhawk]

Very interesting comments here.  

That’s an amazing weight for a coyote, and from the picture, I’d say wolf-coyote mix.  The unusually large coyotes of eastern Canada, Newfoundland and New England are now considered a hybred with more coyote than wolf genes.  

I see where some experts are also stating that the wolf of eastern North America should be a distinct species from Grey wolves.  This is certainly possible since the so-called Eastern Timber wolf looks a lot like the Red wolves.  The so-called Manitoba wolf is considered more aligned with the Red Wolf than grey.

[bad arrow]

One more if I may. I saw a very large wild dog that looked exactly like a husky/coyote mix a couple years back. He was too big to be coyote in my opinion. Darn near identical to the one pictured....Phil

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Well, one final word on the subject and I'll leave it alone.
Maybe I'm just a green horn, maybe I don't have a clue what a coyote looks like, and I know there are exceptions to every rule.
And it's just completely out of the question that our own beloved department of conservation would ever go so far as to lie to us or even stretch the truth.....  :rolleyes:    

[Friend]

Critters that are enormously large may take on characteristics quite different from what we have been accustomed to seeing. One analogy, possibly a poor one, is that most every fisherman is quite familiar with the profile of a two pound bass. A ten pound bass here in KY is rare and actually looks like a different species. Fishermen don’t question its visual appearance because we have seen mounts and photos as well as plentiful coverage by the media. I once had the fortune to catch an 18” six pound KY. My partner and I question whether this was actually a bass or not. Another analogy is that deer in KY are quite plentiful and may attain respectable weight. I had prepared three years for a hunt in western Iowa and as soon as I got there and saw 200# does up close, I knew I was ill prepared. Numerous photos, films and literature didn’t replace seeing these deer in person. The dramatic size difference took me at least four days to acclimate.

[30coupe]

Hmmm, three times the weight of a coyote, ears rounder than that of a coyote, muzzle broader than a coyote, legs longer than most coyotes...yup, it must be a coyote. No government agency would give false information. We didn't have mountain lions in Iowa either, until a couple of them got shot. Pictures, tracks and scat didn't convince our DNR that there were mountain lions here. If there were mountain lions, the DNR would have to manage them.

Nope that's definitely not a wolf. It just resembles one in size and shape, but it can't be a wolf because the Missouri DNR says it's not a wolf. Wolves are protected in Missouri because there aren't any.

Oh, did I mention I have a large tract of beach front property just north of Phoenix that I would like to sell?

Sorry, but my BS detector went off on that one.    

I am in complete agreement with Semo on this one. I've hunted them in Iowa for 40+ years and have never seen one that large. I did see a wolf in Minnesota though and the similarities to those pictures is truly striking.

[jsweka]

I have to agree with Huntschool on the previous page.  There is a lot of variation in the phenotype of species (what they look like).

Here's an example.
 

Would you argue that these two individuals are of different species?  They sure look different.  I'm pretty sure genetic analysis would say they are both Homo sapiens. But that DNA black magic has to be wrong because they look so different.  -Bull.

Genetic analysis is the best way to identify a species.  If MDC had the analysis done and it says it's a coyote, I have to believe it.  I agree it doesn't look like any coyote I've ever seen, but as I said above you can't always go by what a critter looks like.