104 # yote in MO??

[-Achilles-]

Badarrow...That is what I seen.I didnt shoot it because I thought it was a husky dog.It is at least 100 pound dog its huge.

Alot of coyote (Canis latrans) experts on here.LOL...But

Lets not forget redwolves(Canis rufus).They are just like a coyote just a lil bigger and can weigh close to 100 pounds and I'm pretty sure they have been known to breed with grey wolves as it seems like I read that some where.They are endangered.Some of you probably shot 1 and thought it was a big coyote.

So there is another possibility.

[Mark Baker]

I'm saying BS too!   While our wildlife agencies are good, they are known to mask truth in various ways that fit their political needs, or longterm goals.   Montana as well.  

For years here officials denied wolves were living in Yellowstone (before the reintroduction and long after they were trapped and killed out earlier in the 1900's) and yet several sightings routinely occured every year.  As a local and young zoology major, I saw a wolf in Yellowstone in the 70's.   There is no mistaking wolves from coyotes here....but the agenda was to get wolves reintroduced.   Of course that injected a lot of $$$$ into their USFWS coffers and gave several folks lifetime careers here did'nt it?  The truth is they could'nt reintroduce this species if they acknowledged the return of wolves "naturally" to the ecosystem.  It's all about agendas and money, or at least a lot of it is.  

Like a lot of you, I've killed quite a few coyotes, and never seen one ever approach 100lbs....even the biggest ones killed by me or by my friends.  And last I checked, MT is about as far north as you can get in the lower 48.  

100 pounds...truth be told...is actually about as big as most wolves will get.  Some get bigger, but that is a big dog.

[Bobby Urban]

I am on the BS train with most of you.  I agree there are anomolies in all species that are larger - sometimes much larger that usual but come on...  This would be more than 3 times larger than average and double the largest anyone posted here - or anyone has even heard of here.  Take any species you can think of and think of it 3 times larger than known average and double a giant of the species.  We are talking about a 600lb whitetail or a 15-1800lb black bear or a griz pushing 4G.  Or maybe a 100lb northern pike or a 30-40lb bass.  Just beyond realistic and I am thinking there is an agenda.  I would like an independent lab to perform the DNA test before I could believe this dog is 100% coyote if it is coyote at all.  

As far as coyotes taking dogs - I was stump shooting with my dog one time and we came upon a lone coyote.  It saw my dog first and they stood watching each other for a few seconds like two dogs do - kind of sizing eash other up from about 20yards.  Then the coyote started away slowly with a limping, wounded gate.  I watched as my dog started after it and quickly yelled to call him off.  This is the first the coyote saw or knew of me being there and he took off like a shot - no limp at all.  I am absolutely convinced his plan was to lure my dog into a pack or group and take him out.  This all took 60-90 seconds and was a real eye opener for me.  

Bob Urban

[30coupe]

jsweka,

Let's do a little math here. The tallest human EVER was Robert Wadlow, an amazing 8'11.1" tall. The average male is 5'9.7" tall, so Wadlow was 53.5% taller than average.

The average coyote weighs 18-46 pounds. So if we use the 46 pound weight, this rather lean "coyote" was 226% larger than average. The largest coyote on record weighed 74.75 pounds. That means this specimen was about 39% heavier that the LARGEST known coyote. If we were to use your human example we'd have a man (or woman) who was roughly 12'5" tall. Wouldn't the NBA scouts go nuts over that one! If our hypothetical human were as much larger than the average human male as this critter is to the average coyote he/she would be just over 13'1" tall. The coyote equivalent or Robert Waldow would weigh between 28 and 70 pounds, so the 74.75 pounder was a real monster.

Are you starting to grasp why some of us are a bit skeptical of the identification of that critter as a coyote?

MDC better be in contact with the Guiness Book of World Records because they just smashed one. Maybe Ripley's Believe It or Not would be more appropriate.

[jsweka]

30coupe - I gave that example just to illustrate that there is a lot of variation in the size of a species.  Yes, a 104# coyote is way larger than average and very hard to believe.  Maybe the dang thing had a pituitary gland abnormality which caused it to over produce growth hormone and that's the reason why it's so big and doesn't look like your typical coyote. But if the genetic analysis idicates that it is a coyote, I have to believe it is a coyote.  We sentence people to death or set them free based on DNA analysis and the labratory procedures are exactly the same whether it is a human,bird, fish, or coyote in this case.

if i was the guy that shot it i would want it back! its a leagal coyote, wright? acording to mo dept of cons. its a coyote!!!! so he should get the credit due, what ever that may be.....

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by 30coupe:
jsweka,

Let's do a little math here. The tallest human EVER was Robert Wadlow, an amazing 8'11.1" tall. The average male is 5'9.7" tall, so Wadlow was 53.5% taller than average.

The average coyote weighs 18-46 pounds. So if we use the 46 pound weight, this rather lean "coyote" was 226% larger than average. The largest coyote on record weighed 74.75 pounds. That means this specimen was about 39% heavier that the LARGEST known coyote. If we were to use your human example we'd have a man (or woman) who was roughly 12'5" tall. Wouldn't the NBA scouts go nuts over that one! If our hypothetical human were as much larger than the average human male as this critter is to the average coyote he/she would be just over 13'1" tall. The coyote equivalent or Robert Waldow would weigh between 28 and 70 pounds, so the 74.75 pounder was a real monster.

Are you starting to grasp why some of us are a bit skeptical of the identification of that critter as a coyote?

MDC better be in contact with the Guiness Book of World Records because they just smashed one. Maybe Ripley's Believe It or Not would be more appropriate.

Amen!! Perfect Analogy.....Thank You!!    

Now......Who else wants to call BS?? Anybody?

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck.......well then it must be a Wolf?

[30coupe]

jsweka,

I don't disbelieve DNA evidence. I do disbelieve government agencies. If you read the article it is full of contradictory information. Also, if you do some research on canis rufus (red wolf) you will find that DNA test on them come back as coyote most of the time and grey wolf some of the time, indicative of hybridization. Even the MDC article mentions speculation that this is a hybrid. So they come out and call it a coyote, then they admit it might not be a true coyote in their own article.

Since wolves are protected in MO (even though they aren't there) they would have had to charge the hunter with killing a protected species. Calling it a coyote means no charges need be filed, so everybody is happy. It's BS, but everybody's happy.

[Covey]

Dang, That's one big dog!! Jason

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by jsweka:
30coupe - I gave that example just to illustrate that there is a lot of variation in the size of a species.  Yes, a 104# coyote is way larger than average and very hard to believe.  Maybe the dang thing had a pituitary gland abnormality which caused it to over produce growth hormone and that's the reason why it's so big and doesn't look like your typical coyote. But if the genetic analysis idicates that it is a coyote, I have to believe it is a coyote.  We sentence people to death or set them free based on DNA analysis and the labratory procedures are exactly the same whether it is a human,bird, fish, or coyote in this case.

Dude we are talking about a coyote versus a wolf, not a murder trial. Just because the state government claims the DNA test confirmed it's a coyote doesn't mean it's the gospel.
Well......in a perfect world....yes it would be.

I would ask for the "coyote" back myself and then call Ripley's......and the Guiness Book!!
Get me a paycheck!  

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by 30coupe:
jsweka,

I don't disbelieve DNA evidence. I do disbelieve government agencies. If you read the article it is full of contradictory information. Also, if you do some research on canis rufus (red wolf) you will find that DNA test on them come back as coyote most of the time and grey wolf some of the time, indicative of hybridization. Even the MDC article mentions speculation that this is a hybrid. So they come out and call it a coyote, then they admit it might not be a true coyote in their own article.

Since wolves are protected in MO (even though they aren't there) they would have had to charge the hunter with killing a protected species. Calling it a coyote means no charges need be filed, so everybody is happy. It's BS, but everybody's happy.

Wow, man you are on a roll! Once again....you just smacked the nail right on the head!    
I'll just shut up and let you handle the particulars from now on.

[-Achilles-]

I'd have shot it too.I know that.

i woulda shot even if it was a wolf !

[kennym]

I see almost everyone thinks a 104# yote is a stretch,that is my thought also.

There could be several reasons to downplay the issue,probably the most important is to keep the public panic down.

At any rate,if I happen to shoot a 104#er,I plan to take many pics,run a metal detector over it, then a geiger counter,then call the MDC to see if it is truly a yote.  :D  

Now then..........  

[Hot Hap]

I don't believe that any DNA lab would allow anyone to lie about the results of any test that they have done. They would be out of business in a heartbeat. Hap

[Don Stokes]

DNA results would have to be ambiguous in the dog/wolf/coyote clan, because of cross-species interbreeding that has been going on forever where ranges overlap. To my knowledge, there has been no such cross-species breeding in the human/ape population, which is the closest comparison we can make for ourselves. Human DNA analysis would be much more reliable than anything done with the canine group.

Whatever it is called, that is one big canine!

[dirtguy]

On the other hand, if we are talking about weight, the heaviest humans have been over 1000 lbs.  That more than 4 times my weight, and I ain't skinny! 4 times 30lbs is 120 lbs!

In every species there are extreme examples of size.

Not impossible that it was a coyote.  


In terms of them getting bolder - they are around here.  A couple of years ago I found one eating a fawn in my neighbor's driveway just after sunrise.

[Bonebuster]

If this animal IS a coyote according to DNA testing, it is amazing.

If the MDC is relaying ANYTHING but the TRUTH to the public on ANY aspect of this story, it is truely SCARY.

Anything but the TRUTH told to the public leaves us where?

[30coupe]

Originally posted by Bonebuster:
If this animal IS a coyote according to DNA testing, it is amazing.

If the MDC is relaying ANYTHING but the TRUTH to the public on ANY aspect of this story, it is truely SCARY.

Anything but the TRUTH told to the public leaves us where?

It leaves us where we were in Iowa when we didn't have mountain lions...according to the DNR. That was in spite of sightings, tracks, and scat. We don't have a lot of them, but we do have them. If the critter in Missouri is a red wolf type of hybrid, the DNA could very well come back as coyote. If that is the case MDC isn't entirely lying. They just aren't telling the truth. Even their own article is crafted in such a way as to leave room for doubt.

Weight is not the entire equation in this case. The pictures show a relatively thin or rangy animal. If its weight was truly 104 pounds, it had to be MUCH taller than a coyote. That thing wasn't obese. Not in the least! Nor did it appear to suffer from any of the maladies normally associated with giantism in humans (note the crutch in the posted picture).

Heaven help us if we all begin to believe everything coming from a government agency is the truth!

[Mudd]

If we are going to have yotes of this size showing up here in Missouri maybe they need to be moved into the "Big Game" category...lol

There is a Red Wolf project that's been going on here for years now. They have a special enclosure for them somewhere near St Louis( a little south and west of there)I wish my memory was better so I could give you more concrete details.

Even as the crow flies it's a long ways from where this "yote" was shot.

God bless,Mudd

PS:Check this out,http://www.wildcanidcenter.org/Home/default.htm