Serious question: One Lung hits ????

[KSdan]

Okay- I have read a number of posts over the years about one lung hits.  I would really like to hear from some of you who ACTUALLY autopsied the deer and KNOW it was one lung because you actually confirmed the internal organ damage.

If I can graciously write it here- I really am not interested in "my friends second cousin hit this deer in one lung. . ."  

I really want solid info here if I can.  

I suppose the biggest reason I am asking is I really am suspicious about the idea of "one lung."  I have posted anatomy pics here before and most guys do not even realize the spine drops half way down the deer's body.  So we get these ideas of "high lung hits", "void hits" etc etc. when in reality a guy shot OVER the spine.

So I am suspicious of these "one-lung" scenarios where the deer goes for "a mile."  I am just not sure. . .

Questions:  

1) I was always on the understanding that an arrow in the lung/chest chamber would cause the lungs to lose pressure and the deer to suffocate.  So, just the fact of the hole in front of the diaphragm will kill the deer? Yes??  No??

2) Is it really possible to get one lung with no other damage that allows a deer to keep moving for hundreds of yards? (Seems there is a lot of veins and arteries around the lungs)

3) Has anybody really seen a deer stay alive for hours (and even a day or more) when it TRULY had only one lung hit (verified upon autopsy!)?

4) Given your valid experience- how would you proceed tracking a suspected one lung deer?  Wait like a gut shot?  Push him??  


Educate me. . . grasshopper is listening.

Thanks
Dan in KS

[nc recurveman]

dan I have first hand recent exp. on the topic. I dont know the answer to the first question.

For No. 2 yes you can get only 1 lung and nothing else. In my my exp. this generally happens with deer nearly under the stand or within about 5 yds.
 
I killed a doe around thanksgiving, under the aforementioned circumtance and yes she lived a minimium of 3hrs and ran another 150yds after I bumped her. I backed out and returned in the morning and yes quite dead at that point.

the problem with the question four is you just aren't going to know right off that you 1 lunged'um. arrow is going to look good, the bubble will be present, and until you bump'um (and you will) your not going to know. My general rule is I backout anytime I bump a hit deer.

[Stumpkiller]

I have had two deer with single lung broadhead tracks.  Both had a secondary organ hit - heart in one case and liver in the other.  The lung/liver was taken from ground level and the shot was fron a forward quartering angle.  That deer also had a 6" slice/tear that split the diaphragm and a matching slice/tear that split the liver.  That deer went 35 yards and collapsed.  When hit it made an "oof" like it had been punched in the solar plexus.

The lung/heart was from a downward rear quartering shot (ideal) and that deer went 120 yards.

Both of these were with a RibTek 125S ("Slim" - 1-1/8" wide).  

I do not push deer when hit - regardless.  I wait 20 minutes.  If it seems I am moving the deer ahead of me I will stop and have a candy bar and wait another half hour - but that had been a situation with a round ball from a muzzleloader.  The lung/liver one that went 35 yards I found almost immediately (it was thick brush he pushed into).  I've never had a gut-shot myself (knock riser wood) but in helping other archers it was usually two hours wait.  In one case overnight.

Would I try for the liver or diaphragm?  No.  I try for double lung.  Even then I wait 20 minutes and it seems 120 to 150 yards is normal.  Takes a deer seven seconds to do 150 yards through cover.  So if a deer has 14 seconds of strength it can put 200 yards between you without taking a breath.

The one deer I never recovered was a single lung from above.  15 feet with yellow fletch - I saw the arrow enter and saw it after the deer collapsed (I believe I also struck the spine a glancing hit).  Deer struggled back up as I foolishly was lowering my bow.  Should have taken a second shot - but it was lump still for half a minute.  Tried to find the blood trail or carcass for days but it was a flooded swamp.  Bad, rookie experience and I still kick myself 18 or so years later.

[chanumpa]

Well,Ive seen it first hand on deer and elk.usually was a case of the animal quartering to ,or quartering away more than one thought rathrer than it being as broadside as one thought.Also,have seen it happen in a couple of center punch insidences.I would say from experiance,to deffinately give them more time,like a gut shot incident.My old hunting parner and I years ago lost an elk he shot that he only got one lung,that was a real heart breaker.We should have given him alott longer and he would have been dead in his bed ,I think.It was dark and we got up to him.probably an hour and a half after dark and I heard him girgulling,but due to us being scattered and 2 guys that came out to help talking too much,he jumped up and took off down the other side of the ridge through a pass in sheer cliffs.We returned in the a.m. and searched and hiked etc.in super steep brushy country and he got away.Then,a couple of years later I did pretty close to the same thing and had luck on my side and mine reared over backwards going over the top of the hill and was dead to my disbelief in under a couple of minutes.Deer and elk both have an unbelievable toughness and will to survive .The can amaze you at how tough they can be on a less than perfect hit.When in doubt,never be afraid to give them plenty of time.It is hard.Of course be as concientuos as possible on the shots that you take,and practice every realistic shot that you may encounter.Steep uphill /downhill.Thats my 2 cents worth.Thanks and I hope yours are all heart shots.Merry Christmas

[Carbon Jack]

Originally posted by nc recurveman:
dan I have first hand recent exp. on the topic. I dont know the answer to the first question.

For No. 2 yes you can get only 1 lung and nothing else. In my my exp. this generally happens with deer nearly under the stand or within about 5 yds.
 
I killed a doe around thanksgiving, under the aforementioned circumtance and yes she lived a minimium of 3hrs and ran another 150yds after I bumped her. I backed out and returned in the morning and yes quite dead at that point.

the problem with the question four is you just aren't going to know right off that you 1 lunged'um. arrow is going to look good, the bubble will be present, and until you bump'um (and you will) your not going to know. My general rule is I backout anytime I bump a hit deer.

Good advise here on bumping a hit deer. You move one once and you should back off for a good long time.

I made a single lung hit on a doe from a high tree stand angle. Shot was almost straight down and I did hit one lung without damaging the heart. Animal behaved just as the man above me described.

Jack

[Wary Buck]

KSDAN--First, I've never really done the full autopsy, but have a pretty good idea on the kills I'll relate here.  90% certainty.

Two years ago I had a deer literally 3 yards from the base of my tree and I was only 8 feet up.  I one-lung hit this deer almost straight down (arrow tip barely penetrated the skin on the bottom but did not extend).  Basically zero blood trail.  Found deer the next day about 200-225 yards away.  It certainly ran the first 150 yards or so; can't say after that.

This fall my bowhunting partner hit a deer similarly.  The arrow made it to the bottom of the chest cavity but did not penetrate out.  She's a biology teacher so we did do a relatively certain autopsy when we recovered it the next day.  Zero blood the first 75-100 yards (except one drop), then it picked up the last 100+ yards but probably still another 200-250 yd. trail.  Deer ran whole way it appeared.

Back in '91 or so I shot a pronghorn with a liver/one-lung shot (pretty sure on this).  Buck ran out about 60-80 yds and collapsed.  Head came up.  Then it looked like he was on verge of passing out, but then would come to.  I got down and tried to stalk after 10 minutes and got close but he jumped up and ran over hill.  I ran over hill too and he died on the run.  Think he'd been idling on one lung.  

Had a buddy make an almost for sure one-lung hit on a deer, but he'd accidentally used his practice broadhead.  Came back the next day with me alongside and that buck was still alive the next day although couldn't really get up and move.  May have even been both lungs but dull broadhead.

Seems like Gene Wensel told a tale of a buck he or someone else had hit in one lung, that was later killed by rifle by a friend and when they gutted it, the one lung was messed up bad.

[Jerry Jeffer]

First of all, I did autopsy all deer I shoot because that is my thing. I like doing it. My first deer of the year was a single lung shot. I was on the ground and had an 8 yard shot. The deer moved ahead as the arrow entered the first lung, but caused the arrow to angle back and it missed the second lung as it exited. The blood trail was quite good. I only waited 20-30 minutes. While tracking, I jumped the deer after about 100 yards of blood trail. I saw the deer run down toward my friend, so I let it go. Later, I went down by my friend and found the blood trail going past him. We found the deer a little ways away. Total blood trail from hit was a good 300 yards. I also tracked a doe in the snow years ago that had a single lung hit. After over a mile we quit and came back the next day. Found her another half mile and confirmed the single lung hit.

[nc recurveman]

RC was talkin about a single lung hit he a friend track about a mile up here last week. When Mr. RC says something listen.......if he told me it was raining soup I wouldn't even look out the window I'd just go get a spoon.

[Guru]

My question to you Dan is:  Where in a deers body does the spine drop down to the half way point? I'd like to see those pix bud...

 Drops down a bit lower thru the shoulders, but in my experience nowhere near down to the half way point. I think a lot of hunters "backstrap" deer thinking they should have hit the spine, but are shooting above it.


1. Not sure if just a hole would cause death. But I would also think if you put a hole thru a deers chest, you'll have to hit something.  Every deer I've ever hit that I suspacted was a single lung was recovered.

2. I've put arrows thru a few deer at very steep angles that allowed the arrow to go thru the top of a lung, and out the bottom of the same lung. Only one lung hit....deer recovered and autopsied.

3. Never had this happen in my first hand experience. Like i said earlier, mine were recovered.

4. If I suspect an arrow thru the chest, but because of angle maybe only one lung. I would suggest at least 4 hrs.

[Stone Knife]

The only deer that I one lunged with a bow went a little over 300 yards but was dead in minuets not hours. The deer was about 8 yards from the tree and my stand was over 20 feet up so the angle was steep.No animal hit in the lungs or a lung will live for days.

[Mike Gerardi]

1, yes. 2, bad shot angle or a straight down shot. Rib cage on a bad shot angle will stop an arrow out of a 60lb bow, or allow only enough penetration to get one lung. 3, yes. 4, if you only get one lung chances are  that the arrow did not get go through the animal. If the entrance was a high hit and did not come out the bottom then the amount of blood you have to track is going to be limited ( mostly aspirated from the nose). In my humble opinion a one lung hit deer is not a dead deer(with in hours) all of the time. But haveing said that I know guys that scare deer and they drop dead for what ever reason. The way to track a one lung hit deer depends on alot of circumstances.  Bad shot angles means get a good pair of shoes.

[greyghost]

#1  Yes. Your assumption to #1 is in lines with what a vet told me years ago on a one lung hit something along the lines of won't be able to create a vacuum with its diaphram and will suffocate even with a one lung hit, if there is an open hole and the holes do not plug. But if the holes plug up the deer could live 24 hours or forever depending on the hit and plugage.

#2 Depends I would think on the amount of veins and arteries that were hit.

#3 Yes, I have one lung hit 2 deer and found them the next day. Of course at the time I knew they were marginal hits or little penetration and not just one lung. Upon dressing it did not appear to be any damage to the other lung, heart, diaphram, or a major artery. I did not pursue after the hit knowing it was a questionable hit. But I do not know how long they lived after the hit. Found the one about 700 yards (23 hours) and the other I believe was around 300 yards (18 hours).

#4  I would wait at least 6 plus hours and if cool weather the next day.

Of course there was one I thought I may have one lunged but never did find her.

I do not however believe a one lung hit deer will dye all the time.

Earl

[Mudd]

One lung being down will not cause suffocation!

If that weren't true, I wouldn't be writing this because I'd be dead.

Nuff said!

God bless,Mudd

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Mudd:
One lung being down will not cause suffocation!

If that weren't true, I wouldn't be writing this because I'd be dead.

Nuff said!

God bless,Mudd

But are you sure that a deer or elk in tougher than you are.
DDave

[Mudd]

I'm sorry damascusdave but I didn't quite get your question.

I will share that I only have one lung that works due to paralysis of one half of my diaphragm.

I took a fall that severed the nerve that operates the left side of my diaphragm therefore that lung is just there, it doesn't move. The only air that flows in my left lung would be minimal due to chest expansion.

Over time, the other lung has accommodated for it's non-functioning partner.

As far as how tough critters can be, I think deer.... shoot I think even rabbits are tougher than I am...lol

I hope I didn't misunderstand too badly.

Please forgive me if that's the case.

God bless,Mudd

[K.S.TRAPPER]

Check out Terry's thread at the top of the Powwow called "Animal shot placements pics" great skeletal picks of several animals.

 

  I agree with Curt, The spine doesn't drop that low. Deer can go a long ways on a one lung hit, I wish I could have found my buck in one piece this year for a autopsy but the coyotes had eaten them and most everything else in the chest cavity.

  Tracy

[longbowben]

I had this buck live for 4 hours after a one lung hit as you look at this picture the first arrow came out right behind the shoulder the arrow entered on the left side at the back of the rib cage.As we walked up on him he just let us walk up on him then he jumped up and walked slowly over the hill.After waiting another 20 min we found him 70 yards away.

[JamesV]

Years ago I shot a nice buck at 5 yrds facing me from a tree stand, the arrow went thru one lung and thru the diaphram all the way to the fletching. As the deer ran the broadhead was sticking out and made some really bad cuts on his back leg. Followed the blood for 500 yrds or so and it ran out. I got an experienced tracker to help me the next morning. A quarter mile and 3 hrs later, following only small specks of blood he found the deer. The arrow was gone and guts had plugged the hole. This guy was the best tracker I have ever seen, he never let me get ahead of him on the blood trail and he never mentioned giving up.

[BobCo 1965]

I actually believe that a deer can survive a one lung hit. You may want to read the book "Finding Wounded Deer" by John Trout. I would consider him an expert in this area. In the book it his opinion that a Single Lunged Deer (no other organ hit) is the toughest tracking job to do, even worse then an intestine hit. He also describes how a deers lungs work which ARE similar to a humans. In contast if a single lung is puntured in others certain species, both lungs will collapse.

[KSdan]

Some asked about anatomy pics.  Dead deer.  What vitals did it hit?