Serious question: One Lung hits ????

[K.S.TRAPPER]

Now thats funny John!!

  Excellent Curt as always!!!    

  Thanks guys we can all learn from these great picks.      

Tracy

[lpcjon2]

If you aim at the sweet spot and wait for the good angle you wont have to worry about it. If you focus on it your gonna do it.

[J. Cook]

The pics shown by Guru and Dan are great -- it really makes you aim differently depending on a ground shot vs a treestand shot.  I'm usually in a tree -- so if I hit them 1/2 way up I'm well under the spine due to angle.  But you guys are spot on that a lot of hunters blame a lost deer on the "void" and they absolutely do NOT have a void.  They have hit above the spine and simple strapped the deer and didn't realize it.

Secondly, they can absolutely survive a single lung hit, barring no severed nerves.  I shot the biggest buck I've ever loosed an arrow at 2 seasons ago on opening day (Oct 15th give a day or so) and watched him in his bed for the remainder of daylight expecting him to die at any time.  He was coughing and weezing like he had Tuberculosis.  He didn't day in the daylight so I went back in teh morning ready to get my hands on my wallhanger and he was gone.  No more blood after the bed.  The blood trail leading to his bed was extremely bubbly.  

Fast forward to the 2nd week of our rifle season in WV -- the week after Thanksgiving -- and he was killed on the adjacent property by a friend well over 1/2 mile away.  One lung was shriveled completely, the other working fine and he was pushing a doe when shot.  My shot went in tight to the elbow and out in front of the other shoulder -- I hit too far forward on a quartering away shot.  

I've seen photos from a taxidermist friend of a large buck's lung that had calcified around a broadhead from at least 1 year prior to have calcification, more than likely it was more than that.  

So...yes, a deer can live after a true single lung hit.  But I'd say it's a rarity as usually you'd hit a major artery or vein resulting in bleeding to death, or another organ.  

Great discussion though.

[KSdan]

Thanks for all the input.  This has been great.  I agree too- this stuff should stay in archives as great education stuff.

Again- MERRY CHRISTMAS.  God invaded our world!  WOW

Dan in KS

[Bud B.]

I certainly have been educated. Thanks for the dialog folks.

I'll keep a watch on this one.

[Whip]

Here is a picture of the rib cage of a deer with an arrow still imbedded in the chest cavity.  The arrow shaft itself was still in place a year later (you can see the nock at the top in the picture)  and was covered in cartilage around the shaft.  You can see where the shaft entered just below the spine and then out  between the ribs on the other side.  Absolutely two holes through the chest cavity, yet the deer survived.

This deer was killed well after the initial arrow hit.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it.  

 

[Don Thomas]

While I've had plenty of experience with the subject from a bowhunting experience, I may be able to help most by approaching the subject from my medical background. First of all, lungs are made of soft, compliant tissue, and the circulation through them is a low pressure system. The pressure in the pulmonary artery (to the lungs) is only about a quarter as high as the pressure in the rest of the body's circulation. Furthermore, the mammalian lung contains a number of reflex mechanisms that shunt blood away from a "bad" lung and toward a good one. All this means that 1) There's lot of "give" in the lung cavity, 2) Lungs don't bleed like the rest of the body because the pressure is lower, and 3) The body can get along remarkably well on one lung, at least for a while. The main reason penetrating lung injuries kill is because they cause what's called a pneumothorax-- an air leak under high pressure (in some cases) between the lung and the surrounding cavity. People tolerate a pneumothorax on one side quite well, because the blood is circulated toward the good lung, which has plenty of room to "give". However, a pneumothorax on BOTH sides is an emergency--you have to reduce the pressure between the lung and the chest wall promptly or the patient will die. If you follow this reasoning through, you will understand the difference in lethality between a one lung and a double lung hit. Sorry for all the technical terms, but this is the way it works. I hope this helps. Don

[KSdan]

Whip- that is amazing.

Thanks Don.  Great info.  Confirms what many have stated about what they were convinced was a one lung shot and the longevity of the animal.  

Dan

[HcSmitty]

the only deer i can verify with certainty that i 1 lunged was the first deer i shot with trad gear.  It as a 80lb yrling.  I 1 lunged it.  it ran about 175 yrds twistin n turnin.  actually it piled up just 90 yrds away.  But that deer was dead within 15 mins.  n with only one lung it looked like the tate/labianca murders the last 25 yds.  I checked durin the field dress....1 lung.
  I lost a deer this yr i was sure i doubled lunged.  tracked the deer 70 yds n jumped it.  I backed out n came back 2 hours later jumped it again.  tracked it another 50 yds but lost blood.  Never recovered that deer  :(  but the blood was fairly good.  BRIGHT red, bubbles etc.
  the i shot a 90 doe n hit high.  listened to what i thought was the deer goin down.  was dark and i wasnt sure of the hit.  so i backed out.  Came back n tha mornin n found a deer, chewed up by possums 77 yds from my stand.  on "autopsy" it had a lil paper cut sized inscision on top the near lung and the arrows punched through about 1 inch from the top the far lung.  I guess that could maybe be a double lung or a single lung.  but the deer went down alot sooner than i expected.

[longbowben]

Whip thats the void that we are talking about tracked to many deer that people hit to high and that is the void that does exist.My cousin did the same thing and the deer was killed in gun season with his arrow in the same area the lungs had no problem with the arrow in the cavity.If you hit to low or high the same thing will happen.

[J-dog]

Was hoping a Doc would get on and answer. There is alot going on in a punctured lung, not just one detail causing death but rather a whole compliment of things. Get a chance talk to yuor dac and ask silly questions - or your local paramedics (we have them in the firehouse) - Those cats no a thing or two about what will save or kill a traumatic lung injured patient!  

Gurus pics were eye opening! and Whip - that is amazing - I have heard tell of this but never seen an actual pic! I had something similar happen many many yrs ago but my arrow had not actually penetrated main chest cavity.

Great discussion,

J

[Zbone]

Yeah, thanx for sharing.

[glass76]

Great information collected and shared here. Good job guys.

[Bowwild]

Makes one feel even better when the shot is great and the deer drops in plain sight!

[DJR]

My brother-in-law shot a 3pt from a treestand pretty much straight down had about 12" of penitation, the deer went about 35 yds before stopping he said for about 30-45seconds before walking off out of sight.  We track the deer for 300-400yds before we found it.  In that time it took him to travel that distance he had gone across a creek bottom and then went up a hill side that had a nearly vertical section that was about 8 foot in length (he went up the steepist part of that hill I know I was climbing and trailing him and there was a drop of blood in the middle of that near vertical setion)it was about 30 feet from the bottom of the hill to the first bench, it continued up hill for about another 20 feet traversing the hillside at a upward slopping angle to the next bench then traveled along that bench before getting to the Point running up the hill before dieing and sliding down to the first bench, he had NEVER bedded.  We nick-named that deer the Goat because of it climbing that hill.  When I gutted that deer only one lung had been hit and damage only to that lung.  He was using a Bear Razor stainless steel.  Deer can be very tenatious sometimes, not doing what is typically thought they will do.  I really wish he had gone to the creek that day.  My Brother-in-Law still can't believe I climbed that hill where I did to track that deer, that day.   DANNY

[Chris O]

I have single lung shot two deer. Both were autopsied and no other organs were damaged from the shot. The first deer went about 90 yards and dropped, the second went less than 50 yards. I heard both crash and kick for a few seconds.

Personally I don't think a deer could go a mile with a single lunch shot, mostly because I know lungs are extremely well vascularized and I would assume it would bleed out very quickly, however I suppose its possible.

[Charlie Lamb]

Don... sure appreciate the professional medical view you bring to this discussion. Lethality subjects are always hot button topics and need the grounding of an expert comment.

Joe... Been seeing pics like that since back in the sixties. I'm always amazed.

Since I have little to add here I'll post this pic from this fall.

 

I let this deer pass because I didn't see a high percentage shot. No margin for error and likely one lung penetration.

[Wile E. Coyote]

To add to Don's description here's mine. I'm a Veterinarian if you need credientials.

Envision that there are 2 spaces in the chest each holds one lung and they are seperated down the middle by a thin tissue called the mediastinum. This tissue creates 2 seperate areas of negative pressure.

If you arrow creates a break in one side without rupturing the mediastinum then one lung collapses while the other still exist in a negative pressure situation so it won't collapse.

If your arrow creates a break in the chest wall AND ruptures the mediastinum, even if the other lung is not hit, you create a bilateral (both sides) pneumothorax and both lungs collapse.

[outbackbob48]

I had a one lung experience on Nov. 10 of this year. Had a large BB come in close to my tree an didn't seem to want to move out only 5 yds or so. I kept telling myself aim LOW LOW LOW. Upon release my arrow was sticking almost straigh up out of back an looked like maybe 10"of pentration. I was using a 48# osage selfbow with a cane arrow an stone point all made by me, right away I didn,t like the looks of things but to late now. I had a very good visual for 50 yds an he left at a erratic run, arrow hitting all kinds of brush. I waited about an hour an started after him, figured not to have much blood because of extreme high arrow an no prior experience with stone, started tracking by leaf an track sign, I noticed almost immediatley that one hoof spleyed extra wide every time it hit the dirt, finally at about 40 yds had a little speck of blood an this kept getting slowly better, every overhead branch that hit arrow would show blood splatter. Very errattic trail, believe arrow hitting on brush caused this. At 150 yds found tail part of arrow an lots of blood, deer fell an broke cane arrow , got up an only went 12 yds or so an was dead. Stone point went between ribs an down into lung 4 or5" Deer had blood on mouth an nose so assume filled up an suffucated. What impressed me the most was the strength of cane arrow, never broke until deer feel on it, also point was hafted with pine pitch glue an sinew wrap an was still tite in notched arrow, Hope this helps ya some. Bob

[jonsimoneau]

Charlie..that picture is priceless, and I hope everyone pays attention to it.  Last season I shot a beautifull buck with a shot that looked similar to what your picture just showed.  The only difference was that my deer was more broadside than that.  While my arrow went right where I wanted it to...I never found the deer despite 2 days of looking.  It was the first deer I have lost in a number of years.  I was devistated.  I attributed the loss to the fact that I was in a pretty high treestand, and the deer was pretty close to my tree.  One of two things happend.  Either I only got one lung, and the deer either survived or traveled too far for me to recover, or I got a deflection due to the angle, and the arrow did not actually enter the chest cavity.  
     Needless to say...it was a hard lesson, and I passed on a big buck this season because of a similar shot angle.  I also do not hang my stands over 15 feet anymore.