Ron laClair other long time BHers

[J-dog]

Thought about a question hunting the other day for some of you guys that were bowhunting before bowhunting really was so main stream.

How have yall seen the deer population grow or shrink from the times when yall started??

Jason

[Orion]

I've been bowhunting in Wisconsin for about 50 years.  Deer populations are higher now than when I started.

[Craig Schoneberg]

I've been bowhunting central Nebraska for 45 years.  I think the overall impression is that the whitetail populations have increased.  There are however areas in the state where guys are saying the numbers are down.  While I haven't hunted western Nebraska much in recent years the reports are that mule deer populations are definetly down.

[Lin Rhea]

Where I hunt, the population is higher BECAUSE I started trad hunting.    Lin

[longbowben]

Originally posted by Lin Rhea:
Where I hunt, the population is higher BECAUSE I started trad hunting.       Lin

   

[hitman]

I've been hunting here in W.Va. for 50 years and it has absolutely grown by leaps and bounds. There were only a few deer in my county now it is 1 of the best in state.

[hayslope]

One word.........."Exploded"

When I started in PA in the 60s, you had to travel to the mountains to find deer.  Within 10 years, deer had expanded their territory to the farm lands.  Now they are everywhere!

The locals here in southern NY tell me the same thing.  The suburban areas are now inundated with them.
   

[RLA]

I would have to think our deer numbers are down over all here in MO.  But our MDC loves money and selling an unlimted amount of out of state tags so they claim the herd is to large!  This is BS according to anyone that I've talk to this year, there all seeing less deer. But I'm sure if I had been hunting in the 50's or 60's the deer herd has blown up by leaps and bounds! I'm betting it was frusterating to hunt all season and only see a few deer! We sure don't want things to go back like that! Sorry about the rant.

[Bill Kissner]

When I started in the early 1960's I was lucky to see 5 deer from a stand the whole season so there are definitely more now.

[Cocklebur]

I agree with RLA. Where I live here in Kansas our deer numbers are down a lot from there peak.

[ron w]

On the other hand in central New York, the herd is no where near what it used to be. In the late 60's, 70's and early 80's I saw deer all the time on every outing. Now sightings are down and in some cases non existent. The Northern Zone has always been tough but it has gotten worse in the last few years. I average seeing 3 deer a year, yes 3. This year I did see 15. Only because I bow hunted more than I ever have. 15 deer seen and not one shot was offered. There are parts of the state that are good, I just don't live or hunt there.

[longbowman]

When I was a kid in school the bus driver would stop the bus and all of us would go to the windows when there was a deer.  The bus driver wouldn't get the kids to school if they did that now days.  Even with the new PA regs. we still have it great when it comes to the number of deer out there.

[bro-n-arrow]

Whitetail deer in the east have skyrocketed, while mule deer numbers have dropped.Here in southern california 40 years ago I could count40 deer in one morning hunt. Now one three day period I saw one deer. Very poor game management here I think they are trying to kill off the few that are left.

[Mudd]

I agree with RLA in all aspects of his post.

We are blessed to have the Conservation department that we have but that doesn't mean they do everything perfectly.

In fact when choices are made for the pointed purposes of just filling the coiffures it generally bods negative for the average hunter/bowhunter.

This is just my opinion and worth every penny paid for it.

God bless,Mudd

[Bowwild]

I don't know if I qualify "before mainstream" but....  

When I started hunting deer with a bow in 1970 the deer herd was estimated at 45,000 animals.  These days Indiana's herd is estimated at more than ten times that number.  I knew about 4 other bowhunters, all but one older than me. Among the 5 of us, only two had killed a deer in 9 years of bowhunting. I killed the first live deer I ever saw that 1st year with a 15-yard shot from a Ben Pearson Cougar.

The County I live in now, in KY didn't even allow deer hunting until 1967.

[Blackhawk]

I believe the answers reflect where you live.  I grew up in West Tennessee and began bow hunting in the 60's.  Today, whitetail numbers in the South and East are far greater than 50 years ago.

However, here in the West in many areas, both Mule deer and Whitetails are either decreasing or just holding their own.  I think it is safe to say their numbers in Washington are certainly not "exploding".

[Ray Hammond]

we always look for simple answers to complex problems... it's human nature.

Where I hunt, we have had a really high deer count per square mile- for decades.

It's thick (no, not two mountain mahogany bushes on a hillside) like you western guys call thick- I'm talking J-U-N-G-L-E thick.

We also have a high hog and turkey population.

In recent years, though, the deer population has seemingly peaked and valleyed a lot- up and down- and we are starting to believe that its at least partially related to a coyote invasion.

Why wouldn't they? We've got plenty of their three favorite candy foods- baby deer, baby pigs, and baby turkeys galore!

But I think its more than that.

We've had really severe winters comparatively speaking, in the last few years, we have had two severe multiyear droughts over the last ten years, and there's more issues than that too.

[ronp]

I agree with RonW.  The population in parts of CNY seem lower than in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.  I spend more time in the woods and see less deer.  I attribute it to an excess number of doe tags given out over the last couple decades.  NY now gets $10 per doe tag (unless you have a lifetime license), so they will keep handing them out.
RonP

[ronp]

Yup, Ray, the coyotes up here likely have contributed to our local decline, too.  I'm curious, what is a severe winter Georgia?  We got 120" of snow in less than three days a few years back.  That's 10 feet.  I thought that was leaning toward severe.  We usually total about 250 to 275" up here in the snow belt!

[Bowwild]

I gave up fluid dispensing contests four years ago....

I'm a "graduate" (retiree) of four state fish and wildlife agencies, including 3.5 years with the MDC. I assure you, selling more deer permits has ZERO to do with deer management decisions in your state or any state in which I've worked. I can' speak for the west because I know NR fees are a very important part of the funding base in those states. I know one pretty far west state that had to reduce its NR fees one year in an emergency action because the NR hunters were revolting.  In the east nonresidents are barely even a blip -- fees are generally set to be "in-line" with neighboring states to keep the RESIDENTS happy. Most states don't want to have the lowest or the highest fees. I've been involved in these kinds of decisions on many occassions over the years.

Too many people forget we agency folks, at least those of my generation, which includes those who still run most of these agencies, were (are) among the most avid hunters in the state.  We were lead to the profession of wildlife management because of our passion for hunting.

That said, sometimes management decisions are made to reduce or mainatain a lower wildlife population based upon social carrying capacities rather than biological... in other words what the auto insurance folks and farmers will tolerate.  This is why I boycotted deer hunting in Kansas the last year I worked in that state (1992).

P.S. If your state agency isn't replacing its retiring hunter/biologists with experienced hunter/biologists you should be afraid and you should vigorously complain! It matters! I hired quite a few folks during my career, I wouldn't even hire a nature center worker that didn't hunt. If during an interview in my office a candidate for clerk, computer dude, biologist, janitor, etc. made a bad face at my "trophies", the interview was abbreviated and they were still job hunting.  Biologists who don't hunt make for very poor regulation writers because, while they may understand what stink comes from which gland, too many of the nonhunter bios know much about how we hunters tick, what's important to us, what makes sense, ethical, is practical, etc.  Yes, I'm a wildlife biologist (and forester)-- Purdue 1977, but I was a hunter first and remain one after a wonderful and fulfilling 30.5-year career in state wildlife management.