Ron laClair other long time BHers

[Bowwild]

And just in case you think I might have been a "rogue biologist" and poorly regarded by my agency employers...I was MDC's employee of the year in 1994 , 1984 Biologist of the Year for Indiana, and Wildlife Officer of the year in 85. I wouldn't want you to be feeling sorry for me thinking this bowhunter/biologist had been unappreciated!

[Al Dean]

To this day I have never seen the amount of deer I did as a teenager in the 60s in western Wyoming.  There were more deer and fewer hunters.  It was a great time to hunt.

[Billy]

Yeah, what Lin said...    

I have seen plenty this year, just gotta work out some faults in MY approach...I think the 'hunter' numbers are down a bit though.

[Paul WA]

We have too many variables here in western WA to say one way or the other. One cougar can eat a lot of deer in a year plus a bad winter takes a high number also. Seems after a mild winter the numbers are up from 2 bad winters...PR

[RLA]

I will only disagree with you on one thing Bowwild, the deer don't know where the MO. IA. border is and if your planing on hunting in that area on the MO. side. You can go in Walmart and purchase a resident or none resident tag over the counter and it's good in any unit in the state. I have to be drawn on the IA. side. Unlikly to happen in the first few tries! Then I must  pick a unit to hunt that I will be limited to hunt in, not the whole state  and I haven't even brought up the jump in price between these two neighboring states! So it's an easy decision for the out of state hunter to make. Mo. Makes there money on a lot of lower priced unlimited tags, IA. Makes there's on a controled amount of high priced  limited access tags! Who's deer herd suffers more?

[RLA]

Sorry this was a double post.

[tasso joe]

More deer here in LA. Not so much density of population, but they have definitely expanded their range.

[RLA]

It's also a non resident draw tag  in KS. On our west border.
So I guess what I'm saying in short is less out of state tags and higher prices on them. I would also like to see the end of unlimited $7.00 doe tags! Jmwo

[Stumpkiller]

We're still waiting for Ron L. to tell us what he remembers it was like before bowhunting was popular.  

Back when the atl-atl was the hunting weapon of choice.    

[Bowwild]

I hear you RLA. It would be tough living on a border where one is draw and the other isn't. I've been turning down a hunt in Iowa since 2003 -- I just don't want to give up days in KY and IN to go somewhere else.

Iowa and MO deer range are vastly different on a statewide basis. And the reputations for big antlers (older deer) is also quite different although MO is a good deer hunting state.  Because, at least after the crops are in, IA has much less escape cover it would be more possible to over-harvest deer in Iowa than Missouri.  Not as extreme but that's why AZ is draw for almost everything -- habitat is so sparse in some areas overkill could easily occur if permits weren't controlled.

Of all states, money isn't the issue in MO, AR, VA, FL, or Washington -- the biggest budgets (and funding sources) of almost all the states.  Missouri is one of only 15 states that hasn't seen a decline in hunter numbers over the past 10 years as well (KY is also among the 15 + states too).

[Ron LaClair]

We're still waiting for Ron L. to tell us what he remembers it was like before bowhunting was popular.

Back when the atl-atl was the hunting weapon of choice.        
 

I'm not quite THAT old...     :D    I started deer hunting in 1950 when I was 14 tears old. We had a good number of deer in the northern half of the state but not many in the southern farm land part of the state. I lived on a farm in southern Michigan in the mid 1940's and I remember when the local milkman (the guy that picked up the fresh milk from the farmers) said he saw some white tail deer. A lot of people didn't believe him because there had NEVER been any deer in southern Michigan for many many years.

It's just the opposite now with an abundance of deer in the southern farm land and very few in the northern forest areas of the state.

In 1954 my uncle took me to an area in northern Mich. between East Jordan and Mancelona , called The Jordan River State Forest. As we drove down a logging trail in mid afternoon there were white tails waving at us from everywhere. I started bow hunting that area but being a novice bow hunter it took me 7 years to take a deer with my bow. Baiting was something you only did when fishing...tree stands weren't even thought of yet, plus it was illegal to hunt from trees back then. We relied only on spot and stalk or Natural ground blinds close to deer runways.

Here I am with my brand new 52# Bear Kodiak.
     

My bow camp in the Jordan Valley State Forest in the 1950's
     

My first deer with a bow in 1961. In those days only 1 in 20 bow hunters were successful and if you got a deer with a bow you very well may get your picture in the paper.
     

[Ron LaClair]

During the 60's if you wanted to be a successful bow hunter you headed for the north country where all the deer were. I remember one year in the mid 60's I hunted for 9 days straight near my home in southern Mich and never saw a single deer. On the 10th day I had 4 does come by my blind and I shot one of the does.

During the 70's the southern herd started to  take off and we're now to the point that we have too many deer. Farmers complained of crop damage, the insurance companys complained of too many car deer accidents. Consequently the DNR stepped up the doe hunting. Today we have an early gun season in September for anterless deer, then the youth season, then bow season starts in Oct and runs through until the regular gun season on Nov 15th, then muzzleloading season and another doe season that runs until the 1st of the year. There is no limit on the number of anterless permits you can buy over the counter...up to FIVE per day.

At the rate that the does are being killed off it won't be long before there won't be any more deer. I know that's what the Farm Bureau and insurance companys want.

Flash back to the early 50's when people applied for a doe permit just to burn it so it wouldn't get used. And in northern Michigan if you stopped at a gas station with a doe on your fender you may not get served. My how attitudes have changed in the last 60 years.

[joe skipp]

Shrink due to loss of habitat and additional doe tags issued. Seems the Automobile Insurance companies lobbied real hard to reduce herds which reduces car/deer collisions on the road.

Back in the late 60's through the 70's, it wasn't uncommon to see 15-25 deer a day with some nice rack bucks running with these deer. Huge apple orchards that were surrounded by plenty of hardwoods had unbelievable hunting. Now...many of those orchards are housing developments.

The good ol days are no longer the same.

[J-dog]

I did not start this to be beating up on wildlife managers or a woe is me I aint seeing any deer thread just a fun historical type thread. Just thought it was a good perspective of times when alot of us weren't even around yet. Really cool accounts by all.
It does interest me that some of the points made I think have been the bane of what I believe is happening here in eastern NC - too many does getting blasted. People have always ran dogs for deer here but in the last few yrs they said "OK doe season is yr round kill what you can"

I admit I was happy when they opened up the doe season - thought YAY! WRONG - in two yrs I know we are seeing the results of just anything brown being killed. Used to be dog hunters had to ID their target as a buck as there were only a couple weeks of does season. Now if its brown, not wearing a collar, not wearing orange, and aint barking, start blasting.

Our bear numbers are through the roof I think sign this yr has been amazing. Still have not seen one while sitting in stand during bear season, but the sign has been all over and it must have been a poor mast crop yr as they did not go deep into the swamps when the dogs hit the woods as per their usual mode of operation. They stayed up around the fields this yr.

Yeah I did one time get to take a Western man out hunting here - he liked to have died! As Ray said his thought of thick and what is really thick were two different things. He was happy to get back to Wyoming.

Any more stories?

J

[R. W. Mackey]

Here in Texas, I would say population is about the same. I do think the game laws are much improved now as compared to the late 1960's throught the 70's. There were counties were shooting does were not alowed, but shooting spikes was encouraged even nubbin bucks.  I have seen times when you could see 30 to 40 does aday and not see a buck for weeks on end. One thing for sure, the deer are worth alot more now than then. During the 70's you could hunt some ranches in the hill country for $10 a day.  I didn't think I would be able to ever go again when they went to $50 for a 3 day hunt.  RW

[guspup]

In NY, if you live in a apart of the state that is now abandoned farm land, you bemoan the fact that you no longer see pheasants, but deer are everywhere. If you live in the big woods of the Adirondacks, you look at the pictures on the camp walls, and say 'jeez, our grandparents sure shot some nice bucks up here'.
Things change, but at least with our declining state economy, we'll be hunting moose in the whole state in no time :-)

[J-dog]

R.W. Mackey,
My Uncles all had a lease around DelRio TX - south. We had 55 acres in Coma TX before my Mom and Dad moved to coastal NC. Think the hunting is so privatized in TX. Never talk to none of my folks down there. Really not sure how good or bad the hunting was as I never had the chance, too young before the move. I know they all had nice bucks on the wall?

J

[Stumpkiller]

Originally posted by guspup:
In NY, if you live in a apart of the state that is now abandoned farm land, you bemoan the fact that you no longer see pheasants, but deer are everywhere. Things change, but at least with our declining state economy, we'll be hunting moose in the whole state in no time :-)

People keep exodusing from the utility rates and recession stuck cities we will be.  Nearest city has more vacant buildings than used.  

Sadly, we had one moose (a cow) about 15 years ago that was passing through and we were keeping tabs on her.  Some jerk shot her in the backside three times with a pistol and she expired.  Good news is his buddy turned him in and he got slammed.

I was keeping an eye on a pheasant cock and hen at the Otseningo rest area on I81 just north of Binghamtona few years back; like 12 years back (commute - not hunting them).  Those were the last pheasants I've seen in this area.

They seem to have vanished along with hedgerows.  No farms have hedgerows hereabouts any more.

I think the DEC is doing a good job.  Though the deer populations are somewhat cyclic.  I recall winters in the mid 80's and early 90's that decimated the population.  I found five deer carcasses in a group within a 20' circle at Upper Lisle Gamelands in, I think, '91 or '92 after a hard winter.

[amar911]

In western Oklahoma where I do most of my deer hunting, the deer populations were almost non-existent 40 years ago. Now there are many deer and too many does. I sure don't mind thinning the doe population though.

I'm glad Ron LaClair finally came through with his stories. I learn something every time I talk to him or read what he writes. Thanks Ron.

Allan

[Warden609]

I killed my first deer at age 15 in KY and have been hooked every since. Twenty three years later the deer population has exploded and I love it. Every year brings different challenges for bowhunters but there are plenty of deer. It has been extremely enjoyable watching the herd grow in the areas I hunt >>---->