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Author Topic: respect for the animal  (Read 881 times)

Offline bobman

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2010, 11:45:00 AM »
Unless you have some type of illness or injury most grown men can pull a 60 lb bow and shoot it accurately if they work at it, proper tuning is fine but a heavier bow properly tuned will be better. I'm no hercules and almost 60 and I shoot bows around 70lb with no problem.

Fred Bear was a skinny old guy and he shot 70lbs well up in his senior years.

A marginal shot with a heavy bow might end up with a kill because of better penetration.

Just my opinion I dont realy concern myself with what other people want to do.

Even with 70lbs I limit myself to 25 yards or less most of my kills have been under 15 yards.

I do exercise year round and incorporate my shooting into my exercise rountine.

Online mnbwhtr

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2010, 11:57:00 AM »
Buckeye trad hunter, I go to 2 traditional shoots a year where the average shot is 15 yds and the longest is 35 and I have to agree with Hogdancer the shooting is pathetic. My old age may be showing but when someone can't hit the vitals at 15 yds a least 50% of the time they don't belong in the woods. The animals deserve better.

Offline Bob Morrison

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2010, 12:02:00 PM »
Hogdancer is correct. With setup perfect and you can hit the 10 ring every shot on your foam deer. A real living animal changes the whole game. And unfortunatly you can't learn this by reading BH or even by reading every post on TG. You have to kill actual animals, the more you kill the better you get. This don't soundgood, but it is fact. I also hear respect of the animal. You can respect their ability to hide, avoid your efforts to make steak out of them. If you really respected the animals we would not be trying to kill them.Should make you nervice when anyone say they respect you???

Offline reddogge

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2010, 12:31:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RC:

  If we could come up with something to hook on a fellas bow that won`t let him shoot past what he can shoot a 6" group under pressure these type discussions would go away.RC
RC, that device would be known as a brain.  Unfortunately a lot of people are missing the device.
Traditional Bowhunters of Maryland
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Mayberry Archers

Offline Buckeye Trad Hunter

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2010, 12:37:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mnbwhtr:
Buckeye trad hunter, I go to 2 traditional shoots a year where the average shot is 15 yds and the longest is 35 and I have to agree with Hogdancer the shooting is pathetic. My old age may be showing but when someone can't hit the vitals at 15 yds a least 50% of the time they don't belong in the woods. The animals deserve better.
I agree that they should be able to hit the vitals at 15yds. at least 50% of the time.  But are we talking about 50% of the first few targets or the last few?  Maybe they have poor stamina.  Last time I checked I didn't shoot 30 times at a deer.  What do these people score on their very first arrow?

Online mnbwhtr

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2010, 12:56:00 PM »
50%

Offline Margly

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2010, 12:56:00 PM »
I Think it is very easy to not look behind the poundage of the bow!

As some of you know we did a test with low bow-weight on a deer scapula, that showed good results for low poundage bow.

Here is a thought:

Nathan aka buejeger was shooting a Border Black Douglas Hex V 42@29, with a 650 grain arrow with a foc of 26%.

The momentum was 0,45.

He have the same momentum with the same arrow with his Black Widow PSA 51@29.

Do you think the deer or whatever he kills will know the difference?

I also do believe it is easier to pull 42# than 51#.

BUT you have to know your setup.

If you use a 40# bow with low performance, well then you should go higher in bow-weight, but if you like many other have a high performance recurve or longbow with properly arrow setup, well in my opinion go for it.

Margly
With a healthy dose of madness and bad memory, life`s a wonderful journey      :thumbsup:    

-----------------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline GO Rogers

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2010, 01:01:00 PM »
Point well made, and taken.
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. TGMM ♥

Offline Turkeys Fear Me

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2010, 01:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dick sable:
IMHO, respect for the animal should be paramount. Taking wingshots at larger game with minimally weighted bows, improperly tuned shafts, improper broadheads, etc. is not only naive, but entirely disrespectful to the life and beauty of the animal.
Dick
Taking wingshots at larger game (any game for that matter.  A hail mary shot on a rabbit is no less disrepectful than one on a P & Y buck) is just as disrespectful with minimal bow weights as it is with heavier bow weights,  Same with improper broadheads, improperly tuned shafts, etc.

Within reason, bow weight is irrelevant to the issue of "respect for the animal".  As long as the arrows are flying true, and the broadheads are sharp, a shot to the ribcage with a 40lb bow will result in nothing different that one with a 70 lb bow. Same with a shot to the ham, the gut, or the leg.

Arrows kill by hemorrage, not shock.  Any organ or vessel that will result in sufficient bleeding is readily accessible by minimal amounts of penetration.  Non lethal hits will not be helped by heavier weights.  Wild animals do strange things resulting in bad outcomes regardless weapon choice or size.  True "respect for the animal" manifests itself much more in proficiency than weight, and knowing the limits of both your equpment and yourself.  Respect should never be confused with bravado.

Offline TxAg

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2010, 01:10:00 PM »
These threads make me laugh. Same as the baiting threads. Some people take hunting way too seriously. Hunting is supposed to be fun....granted, I want to kill efficiently and effectively, but I also keep an open mind and a lighthearted disposition.

Offline RLA

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2010, 01:27:00 PM »
Well said Bob M Bowbldr, Bill D Zipper, Ronny E Margly, and Jeffrey W. Turkeys fear me, I share your opinions !

Offline TSP

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2010, 01:31:00 PM »
This topic is ageless and will NEVER be resolved because there are too many components that affect the arguement.  And we are all too opinionated to be adequately objective, are we not?  But, here's one question that might put an interesting (and maybe even compelling) twist on the issue.  

At what bow weight, or arrow weight, or shot distance, or (fill in the blank) would you be willing to try and kill a game animal if the CONSEQUENCE of wounding that animal meant that something you hold in high PERSONAL esteem would be harmed in a SIMILAR way?  For example, what if every time you stuck a deer through the guts a similar wound would be caused on, say, your favorite family pet.  An arrow through the guts of that affectionate critter that meets you at the door every day.  A serious, painful, slow and agonizing death.  If failure to execute your shot of choice with an 'on the edge' approach  brought this result, would you STILL be as likely to take the RISK involved in such a horrible consequence?  Would you still be willing to DEFEND the 'it's all up to each of us to decide' kind of approach, with Fido (like the deer) laying out back and suffering through the consequences of YOUR actions and choices?  Would you be willing to roll the dice for that shot under odds that, even if not marginal, are far from optimum and perhaps not even average?

It's easy to bet the farm when you're using house money.  It's even easier to suggest that it's our right to make our own shot choices.  An unfortunate problem with freedom of choice here is that the consequences are not always paid by the perpetrator (shooter) but rather by the 'perpetratee' (the game animal) and by those who provide the opportunity (i.e., those who buy licenses and make it possible for us all to hunt those same game animals and to enjoy this wonderful sport).  

It's all too easy to make a statement that "This is adequate".  We all know someone who tried this bow weight or that shot distance, and it actually worked.  That time.  Maybe a few times.  But equating "This is adequate" to "This is a good idea" is a whole different thing.  What if the consequences were more 'real' to you and to yours?  Do you still want to roll those dice and trust that it works?

Just some friendly advice for your consideration(no foul intended), but when we attempt to take an animal we all need to 'make it personal'.  Shoot close.  Shoot gear that matches the need.  Learn skills.  Stay within the tradition and limits of the sport.  Because to the animal and to the rest of us who'd really like to keep the tradition of respecting these animals an icon of what hunting is supposed to be all about....it IS personal.

Offline Claymore

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2010, 01:31:00 PM »
Quote
imo, it's this kinda thinking that gets "us", trad bowhunting, in trouble.

if you can't employ proper trad tackle for the type of game hunted, use another form of weaponry. yes, really. no one said trad would be easy on many levels.

saying that a 36# bow is okay for deer hunting is a marginal statement at best, and not for newbies or amateurs. taking that same gear to stalk a 150# hog is, well, plain dumb.

do your own ethical assessment of your abilities and tackle and game hunt

 [/QUOTEed.]
So you are saying and others that I at 60 having had cancer 8 years ago and breaking my bow arm one year ago Jan3. should just hang it up. As for not trying I have shot almost daily since they let me after my arm healed and have not been able to get to a point that I can shot more than 35-38 lbs. Thanks for your post RC
Don Dow 37@30
HH Cougar 38@30
Hoyt Excel 38@30

Offline Mitch-In-NJ

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
To me, the ultimate setup is the heaviest bow you can shoot accurately.  For me that is 55# right now.

If you can make an accurate shot with a well tuned 35# bow then you can kill a whitetail.

The first deer I took when I was a youngster was with a 35# Browning.  So I know 35# is heavy enough.  I don't know if it would break the shoulder but I don't worry about that... I am not trying to hit the shoulder.

I think using a heavier bow to compensate for poor tuning and accuracy is going in the wrong direction.  Drop down a little in weight and work on putting the arrow where you want it.
"The encouragement of a proper hunting spirit, a proper love of sport, instead of being incompatible with a love of nature and wild things, offers the best guaranty for their preservation."

-- Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Claymore

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2010, 01:36:00 PM »
Sorry but these "if you can't do it like we do it don't do it".
Don Dow 37@30
HH Cougar 38@30
Hoyt Excel 38@30

Offline Daz

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2010, 01:38:00 PM »
The one variable is always the archer. A seasoned hunter that is calm and methodical will tend to be able to do what needs to be done in the moment more effectively than someone who is struggling to maintain composure. That tends to be regardless of method of harvest. Having said that, the seasoning comes from experience.

I think that the stage of a hunter is something to bear in mind. I have seen some come to trad a little too soon. They are still more into outcome (animal down means everything) versus process (enjoying the full experience).  The mindset of the hunter will often dictate shot choices and how they are carried out. A poor choice is still a poor choice.

When i can no longer carry my trad tools, and be effective... well  i guess i will cross that bridge when i get there...
Less anger, more troubleshooting...

Offline silvertip73

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2010, 01:59:00 PM »
Agreed 100%, I think that is why we shoot the equipment we do.  Not to say there are not "those" type of people in trad archery.

Offline dick sable

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2010, 02:02:00 PM »
Good point Jeff (Turkeys fear me). If everyone took it so seriously regarding proficiency we'd all be better off. Wing shots at running rabbits usually does no harm whatever, IMHO.
 Tony (TSP), absolutely right on! I totally agree, it is very personal. Just watch Primal Dreams!

Offline Gray Buffalo

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2010, 02:34:00 PM »
Most of you have said the same thing and I agree. It’s that little piece of meat between your ears that will say let go or no shot. The main problem as I see it, there is so much pressure on people to kill a deer or what ever that people take marginal shots. I say enjoy the process and the kill will come when thing are right.
I try not to let my mind wander...It is too small and fragile to be out by itself.

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

Offline Thumper Dunker

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Re: respect for the animal
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2010, 03:04:00 PM »
Lots of good stuff said.
You can hop but you can't hide.
If it was not for rabbits I would never get a buck.
Yip yipahooooo yipyipyip.

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