Bowyers- What makes a bow forgiving?

[mmgrode]

What is it that makes a bow forgiving- design wise? I have heard that heavier tips will make a bow more forgiving by slowing the forward momentum of the bow limbs enough to compensate for bad releases(but this would make the bow slower- don't want that), but I've also heard of bows that are super quick and are forgiving. What's the deal? What is it in the design that makes a bow forgiving of form or release imperfections? This is all assuming near perfect tiller. Just a bowyer looking to learn from other bowyers. Thanks ahead of time, Matt

[Crooked Stic]

Heavy tips is not a good thing. I think heavy riser mass will help in forgivness. Some say that a higher nock point will help a bad release.

[Tom Leemans]

Good tiller and comfortable grip makes a bow forgiving.

[ShinneryOak]

A major factor in a longbow is length.Jim Hamm wrote an article in the Winter 2006 Primitive Archer magazine titled "Longbows Were Given Their Name For A Reason". Everyone, me included, is drawn to a short, sexy bow but you can't change physics. Longer bows are just more "forgiving" all around with better accuracy, less stack and finger pinch, less hand shock, more speed per pound, etc. Read the article, Mr. Hamm's credentials are a lot better than mine.

[john gerrard]

This is just my opinion. I believe that in most part a forgiving bow is very subjective. What makes one bow very forgiving for one person may not for another person. In othr words: Some people say that a longer bow is more forgiving. Ask a Shrew shooter about that. Some people claim that a bow must have a heavier mass weight. Ask someone who shoots a Centaur about that. Some people say that a larger grip keeps the shooter from torqing the bow,other people want a small grip. Do you see what I'm trying to say. I think alot of times a general consenses starts out with good information but as the group in favor grows many times it turns into a hype. For instance XXX bow is reported to be very fast buy a majority of the public. John Doe buys one of these bows and imeaditely gets on here and states WOW this bow is so much faster than my other one. First question. Have you chrono'd the bow? No but it looks alot faster. Speed you can actually measure but how do you determine what makes a bow forgiving. How do you measure that? So I would say build a bow that feels very forgiving to you. Some people will love it some won't.  That is what makes this sport so great at times and so frustrating others.  Brokenwing

[Ghost Dog]

A steady bow arm and a consistant release are paramount. If you have that going for you, you  need to find a bow that agrees with you, and then you need to forgive yourself when you miss a shot. Thats' the most important kind of forgivness in traditional archery.    

P.S.  I am not a bowyer, but I have some experience with bows.

[gordie]

From a man that knows alittle on this subject:

"Forgiveness is in the arrow,
not in the bow." by Jim Ploen

[LazerRay]

High Brace Height will make a bow forgiving and quiet

[Keith Deters]

I tend to think that forgiveness is in the hands of the shooter.

[Sid]

In a recurve tosionally ridgid limbs helps greatly to reduce the effect of the archer's release on the arrow and paradox holding arrow groups tighter than otherwise expected.  Great for that cold shot after a long wait.

deflexed bow geometry helps defend against bowhand torque issues. Get both and you have a very steady and forgiving bow.

Sid

[ChrisS]

Thinking physically, as it seems I am forever cursed to do heh, I would have to say that one idea of 'forgivness' is the bows ability to minimize displacement for small forces.

What I mean is, given a small form error or something, how much does that move the riser? If we imagine the bow with 3 axis, we can pin down what features make the bow forgiving in that direction. Bear in mind that this is one of those "makes sense to me" arguments.. so take it with a grain of salt.

For linear motion, the riser mass seems key. Given a heavier riser, it takes more force to move the bow, right? So left/right and up/down motion can be minimized with a heavy riser (or heavy limbs, but who wants that?    ) I'd imagine forward/back motion is less important to forgivness and more important to performance.

For torquing the idea is similar. To minimize motion due to torquing, the easiest method is to have mass as far away from the axis of rotation as possible. So it makes sense that people say long limbs make a forgiving bow when concidering side/side torquing.. like trying to spin a 2x4  vs. a broom handle. Front to back torquing would be similar. This also supports the idea of the person above that said that heavy tips can make a more forgiving bow.

This may be the reason that people observe slower bows as more forgiving.  It is probably not the fact that it is slow that makes it forgiving, but the fact that it is slow because the limbs are heavy and, thus, resist torquing motions better than fast light limbs.

Moving the arrow around would also make sense. We would want to get the arrow as close to the axis of rotation as possible, so that if the bow does rotate inadvertently it does not significantly change the direction of the arrow.

Chris

[Ric O'Shay]

I agree with what Sid said........

[Shaun]

Heavy riser, long limbs, wide limbs, deflex, locator grip, arrow rest as close as possible to the force point of the hand grip, small arrow contact point on the rest, center shot rest, plunger button, stablizer.

So we are looking at a 78" deflex limbed bow with 8 lb metal riser with adjustable plunger button to center the arrow, close to hand flipper rest, custom grip and a long front stablizer.

Now for a hunting bow we may ask for a light - to carry, short - to manuver, quick shooting (reflex) bow that shoots off a shelf.

If our form is good (a BIG if for me often) then we can reduce the bow arm movement, sting pluck, hand torque, head raising to see where we hit factors and make a usable hunting bow shoot where we want at reasonable ranges.

Oh yes, a well matched arrow will help a lot too.