Heavy head and arrows set up ?

[lpcjon2]

I have read a lot of post on the EFOC and the heavy grain heads and such and have some simple ?'s. I shoot a 70# @ 30 Hill Tembo and my arrows are 75-85# (depending on type of wood)I shoot 125 up front on most.I have some that shoot 160 (Hill Heads)good as well,and 160 Snuffers drop a lot.
  When I try and add weight up front on 90# shaft it drops about 10" at 20 yrds I have moved the nock point down to compensate and it just looks odd to have the nock that far down.What am I doing wrong with this Heavy weight head set up.I have steel blunt heads 160gr and added small washers inside to take them to 200grn and the drop is killen me.I did do some internal nail footing on a few shafts and they shoot ok out of my other bow (60#),but I want the Hill to shoot heavy.
  I am an idiot to getting these to get a straight trajectory without an arc,is that normal.Any help would be appreciated.  

[bigbadjon]

If all you are doing is adding more weight to the tip of the arrow and changing nothing else there really is no way to prevent a drop in your trajectory. For the record though a 10" drop from going to 125gr to 160gr seems pretty extreme.  Also I believe most of the guys who represent the extreme heavy arrow camp shoot at pretty exaggerated trajectories. I do not worry much about foc and shoot 9.5 to 10gpp and like a flatter shooting arrow. My reasoning is that accuracy rules all and a faster, flatter shooting arrow is easier to aim. A 70# Hill should launch a 700 gr arrow with enough authority to kill anything, anywhere.

[akdd]

The heavier the arrow the more it is going to drop.
You are never going to get a straight trajectory all  arrows are going to have an arc. I just tuned my bow and arrow combination to get good arrow flight then learned to compensate for the arrow drop. I think that moving you nock point down can mess with your arrow flight.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

drop down in shaft weight some.

[Schultzy]

Originally posted by akdd:
The heavier the arrow the more it is going to drop.
You are never going to get a straight trajectory all  arrows are going to have an arc. I just tuned my bow and arrow combination to get good arrow flight then learned to compensate for the arrow drop. I think that moving you nock point down can mess with your arrow flight.

This^^^^^^

[Molson]

Your arrows and bow are not tuned.  Properly tuned efoc arrows do not nose dive.  200 grains up front is not heavy and unless your woods were super light, you are not even near 19% foc with a 200 gr head.  Having a 160 Snuffer dive low is telling you that there is a tuning issue.

[lpcjon2]

Originally posted by Molson:
Your arrows and bow are not tuned.  Properly tuned efoc arrows do not nose dive.  200 grains up front is not heavy and unless your woods were super light, you are not even near 19% foc with a 200 gr head.  Having a 160 Snuffer dive low is telling you that there is a tuning issue.

I normally shoot 125 gr heads(snuffers and Woodsman) on an 80-85# shaft and they are like bullets. If you look at my avatar that is at 30yrds, with 125gr heads. And when it drops it is directly under the bulls eye around 10".

[hunt it]

I shoot 300+ gr up front on 600 to 800 gr shafts. Tune them and shoot them all the time, forget about what your light tipped shafts shot. You will never get flat trajectory with arrows of this weight.

[S.C. Hunter]

Most of my bows are 55-57#. I shoot arrows that weigh 535-550 grains out of these bows. I have no problem with kills on deer or hogs. Never really looked at FOC. I think a good flying arrow is what is important with 9-10 gpp. This has worked well for me.

[Molson]

You didn't ask about 125 grain heads, you asked about problems with 160's and 200's and efoc.  Your setup is not efoc so that is not the issue.  The addition of 75 grains to an arrow fired from a 70# bow is not going to cause a 10" drop at 20 yds.  The only answer is the wrong spine, improper tune, or form.  The wide blades of the Snuffer 160 do not lie!

[lpcjon2]

What I am saying is with 125 heads on a 80-85# spine arrow they fly like darts,So when I use a 90# spine arrow why do 160gr and up drop.The arrow is not weak and should handle a 160 or 200grn heads.I have been shooting for years and the arrows I shoot are tuned, but like stated when I move to heavy heads I have to drop the nock position to get on target.Do you guys have a lower nock point 1/2 to 1" to shoot heavy heads.And I shoot every day and almost every day in winter my form is not an issue.Would a lower spine be better for heavy weight up front as Sal suggested?

[Ragnarok Forge]

I am not sure why your moving your nock point up or down.  I shoot a variety of shafts with varying head weights.  Each set of arrows spines out at the same level with my bow.  I do not have to adjust my nock point at all and they all shoot the same with a bit lower impact point for heavier arrows.

If your serious about High FOC or EFOC arrows then your going to need to abandon the wood shafts and go to carbons.

I am shooting full length 600 spine Easton shafts with 364 grains up front.  Total arrow weight is 584 grains with a 29% FOC out of a 55 lb longbow.  You learn the arc your arrows fly at and then stick with the same arrow.  If you like really flat trajectory you want to stick with a lighter arrow which means using carbon shafts to get a HFOC or EFOC arrow.

[onewhohasfun]

Clay is right on. Your nocking point should not change. What is the overall  weight of each different  spine arrow. Lets compare apples to apples. A 10" drop is not probable.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

For my set-up, a 78# @ 29" Howard Hill, I used a 30" BOP Douglas fir arrow, 95/100#, with 160 grain heads. That was with a Dacron string. They flew perfectly.

I know calculations can only be taken so far, and that your arrows are flying well, but if I was calculating spine for you, I'd be calculating it higher than what you're using.

Are the heavier arrows flying good, but just hitting lower than your lighter arrows? That may very well just be normal.

[Stumpkiller]

There is a reason flight arrows use itty-bitty heads.  

And also why airplanes are made of aluminum and titanium alloys instead of cheaper steel and iron.

You is up against dat ol' devil gravity and he will always win in the end.  That said, 10" at 20 yards seems a hard penalty - but I've never shot a head that heavy so I truly can't say.  Try putting the arrow's nock on top of that lower nock point on the string and see if you get good arrow flight.  If yes, move it back up.

Hint - the old timers could have used heavier heads as well but shots were longer then and lighter allows you to reach out a bit.  Life is full of compromises.        

[maineac]

I agree with the sudden dive being extreme for just increased arrow weight.  I shot arrows that varied in weight by 175 grains, at the same time.  Each were tuned and I could not notice any difference in flight until it got out to over 20 yards, and that is on a 53# bow.  Then the further back, the more the heavier arrow would drop.  10" at 20 seems huge if the tip weight has only increased the over all arrow weight by 45 grains.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Just to kill my curiosity, would you consider getting a test pack of heavier spines, and seeing what influence that has?

[lpcjon2]

My arrows with the 125(usual shooters) are 80-85# and weigh 600rn. My foc with 160-200gn head and a 90# shaft is at 680gn. This may be headache by the time I'm done.

[sagebrush]

I would put on a big tip like a Magnus 1 and maybe a woody weight to get to 200 grs. and then see if it is still tuned. A big tip will let you know in a hurry if it is out of tune. In fact, I tune my arrows with the worst flying tips I can find. When they shoot good with those, I can switch to a smaller one and they really fly good. Gary

[Mike Vines]

Originally posted by sagebrush:
I would put on a big tip like a Magnus 1 and maybe a woody weight to get to 200 grs. and then see if it is still tuned. A big tip will let you know in a hurry if it is out of tune. In fact, I tune my arrows with the worst flying tips I can find. When they shoot good with those, I can switch to a smaller one and they really fly good. Gary

A very good bit of advice right there.