Howard Hill long bow and Carbon arrows?

[GingivitisKahn]

I'm shooting a HH Halfbreed 60@29 and 66" long.  Carbon Express Heritage 250s work pretty well with it as do GrizzlyStick Alaskans.

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by Wannabe1:


GingivitisKahn should be along. I believe he shoots carbons and they fly real well for him.

Well - they don't fly any worse for me than anything else.   :D   Hehe.

[tradlongbow]

In my Hill's, I only like to shoot wood. I really enjoy making them, using the spine tester, tapering staining, fletching etc. It's really relaxing to make them.

Once I tried carbons, I tried all different lengths, point weights and could not get them to fly as good as wood. I just decided to K.I.S.

Darren

[tradlongbow]

In my Hill's, I only like to shoot wood. I really enjoy making them, using the spine tester, tapering staining, fletching etc. It's really relaxing to make them.

Once I tried carbons, I tried all different lengths, point weights and could not get them to fly as good as wood. I just decided to K.I.S.

Darren

[Davesea]

Thanks everyone,
So it seems that Carbons are possible with HH.  I am going to try the Beman ICS Bowhunter Arrow Shafts which are very reasonably priced @ $54.99 for a dozen.....  They get great reviews too.

Will let you know how they work out.  I still plan to hunt with my wood arrows and shoot wood at the 3D comps, but everyday practice in the walk through(s) and stump shooting I plan to use either carbon or aluminum.  Whichever proves the best economy and compromise between toughness and consistency.

My latest wood arrow that I plan to craft is going to be from Madrone.  So I have not given up on wood by any means.

Thanks
Dave

[longbowben]

I like gold tip 5575 add 260 gr up front and they shoot great and are hard to break.Buy them from Big Jim 43.00 for 12

[Greg Skinner]

I shoot GT 55-75's out of my 57#@27" Tembo, cut to 28.5, 100 grain brass insert and 260 grain point.  Total weight 640 grains. I also use a 1 1/2 inch 2216 aluminum sleeve on the front - makes a very tough arrow.  Woods shoot good, too, but the carbons are so easy to make, consistent and almost indestructable.  I like Big Jim's blemishes too.

[Davesea]

OK, You convinced me Big Jim's it is.
Thanks for the hot tip.
Dave

[HUNT 24/7]

I shoot Arrow Dynamics Hammerhead Heavyweights out of my 70# @ 28" Wesley Special, they fly awesome!  

[Rob DiStefano]

i just don't get it.

i shoot every kinda shaft material out there, from woodies to carbons, in all manner of stickbows from hill to moab.  they all work just fine, once i figured put what works and what doesn't work, for me.  

it never ceases to amaze me all the hubbub over certain arrow shaft materials being 'difficult to tune'.  i heard that a long time ago about carbons.  i bought a buncha different spine shafts.  didn't take long to realize the incredibly wide dynamic spine range of graphite, and in short order i found some shafts that bare tested quite nicely.  but i hadda to the legwork and in some cases go against some of the carbon arrow dogma rhetoric one finds too often.  

i'm no genius or rocket scientist by a long shot, and it didn't take much to figure out what arrows work best for me, and what don't.  

but it does take time and effort to figure it all out, and no one can find the correct answers but me, 'cause i'm the one shooting the arrows outta my bows, not you or them.

the key is in getting a 'test kit' of sorts, and spending the time to figure out what works best for your bow(s) and you.  do this bare shaft, you don't even hafta know how to fletch (though you ALL should learn!).

[Davesea]

Rob,
What Carbon do you shoot with your Hill bow(s) at the moment?  From your experience did you find any peculiarities (compared to wood) with getting Carbons to fly well from your bows?  

I am going to try to add some weight up front on the Carbons to get the total weight to match my wood and aluminum shafts.  Do you see any issues with this based on your experiences?  Considering your statement about the wide dynamic range, I am assuming this should be just fine.

I use the paper method for tuning and it seems to work great.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Davesea:
Rob,
What Carbon do you shoot with your Hill bow(s) at the moment?  

i get sideways glances every time i say what works for me, but here goes (remember, you asked) ...

beman 500 ics bowhunter, 29.25" to the back of the insert, 100gr brass insert, 125gr steel adapter, 125gr woodsman, total arrow weight is 585gr, foc is 29%, 10.6gpp. vario chopped lo-pro banana fletches, 4" 4-fletch, 75x105.

mohawk t/d longbow, 62", 55.4# @ 29". the arrow plate *leather* is just about 1/8" proud of the bow's center (i modded the arrow shelf wood closer to center, about 1/16"). 8 strand bcy dyneema bowstring.

From your experience did you find any peculiarities (compared to wood) with getting Carbons to fly well from your bows?

yes.  most are just too stiff for me.  i mean, if you look at the beman (or any other chart or miller spreadsheet), a 29" 500 spine should NOT work with 55# of push.  but it do.  for me.

I am going to try to add some weight up front on the Carbons to get the total weight to match my wood and aluminum shafts.  Do you see any issues with this based on your experiences?  Considering your statement about the wide dynamic range, I am assuming this should be just fine.

imo "we are all experiments of one".  don't listen to anyone, including me, and do yer own testing.

I use the paper method for tuning and it seems to work great.

i use paper to write on.    

[Davesea]

Rob,
Thanks.  As you say, I will do my own testing.

I was thinking about taking the leather off my shelf to move the arrow closer to center.  I might try it.  

I have a Vario chopper too.  Really like it.  It is very nice bit of kit.

Ya the paper method is pretty objective and I can do it in my garage....

[Rob DiStefano]

i've replaced the leather arrow plate on a few bows with teflon tape, and noticed a difference in arrow flight - most went weaker, as expected.

i used carbons with a lotta hill bows, the last 2 were a big 5 and wesley, both about the same holding weight as the 'hawk.  once again, using the same carbons, i hadda do some minor tweaks to get good arrow flight, but it wasn't a big deal.

right now i'm testing out gt hunter expedition 55/75 (400) shafts.  they're a bit heavier gpi, and certainly stiffer than the ics 500's, but they fly just fine outta the mohawk, too.  go figure.  maybe because i use a LOT of front end weight, from 350 nearly 400 grains. i dunno for sure.  don't care either.  

[Davesea]

Rob,
My plan is to have my everyday practice arrows for the local walk through (has lots of long shots) to be around 500grains.  29" BOP.

I am using Sitka Spruce at 500 grains, Legacy 2018 at 500 grains and I plan to try the GT Traditional 5575 9.3 GPI With a 125g screw in point with a 50 grain insert this gets me to 485 close enough.

For hunting I have Sureshaft parallel shafts that  weigh in at 600 grains with a 125 g head.

I haven't tested the EFOC theory... yet...

[Davesea]

OK, So I fletched up some GT 5575s.  They are a little stiff for my bow but seem to fly pretty well.  Paper tuning showed they were on the stiff side and I am pretty sure 3555 would show they are not stiff enough.  I find that with the Aluminum too, that I am in between the two stiffness (2016 and 2018).  So I opt for the stiffer and but more weight up front.

Anyway the 5575 cut to 29" fly nicely and seem pretty tough.  My first impression is that the Carbon are not as forgiving as the wood arrows?  Techniques has to be perfect for them to fly perfect?  Anyone else notice this.  

Still need to shoot more but that is my first impression.

Blemished shafts are great deal.  Thanks again for the tip.

[Rob DiStefano]

i found the 55/75 gt trads (wood grain simulation) a tad too heavy and stiff.  regular 55/75 gt hunter expedition's are a bit lighter, less stiff due to no wood grain wrap, and fly real nice at 29.5" and 55#'s of push.  it do help to have 350gr up front, though.     it's all a game of trial and experimentation ... and some error.  

[Davesea]

Interesting that a wrap makes a noticeable difference....

[Flying Dogg]

CX Heritage 90's will work very well for you with 125 pts.

[David Mitchell]

OK, dumb question, but not my first....The only carbons I have messed with are GT Trads.  I still don't get the various designations like, Heritage 90s, 250s, 500s, etc.  Seems to be a lot like rifle calibers--little rhyme or reason behind it.  So how does a 90 differ from a 400 or 500.  BTW, I realize the 500, etc. refers to deflection (I think) but what about CX Heritage 90s....what do they correspond to?  That's probably not a reference to deflection, right?  Guess my brain is getting to old for all the new fangled stuff.  :confused: