Hill Guys...what's the big deal??

My first longbow was a 72# "custom" bow I bought from friend...He called it "stump"...it was.  I hated it with a passion but was determined to do the longbow thing right.  The end of that story - I chose to keep my teeth and unloaded it for a song.

Fast forward.....Bought a beautiful hill-style bow from Dave Dwyer at the expo in Kalamazoo...maybe five years ago.  It was very well behaved, comfortable to shoot - actually had a certain "finesse" about it (can't explain that).

That bow was beautiful as well - backed with quilted cherry..awesome.  flawless workmanship BTW!!

My Question:  I see many of you shooting the Wesley Special.  What is the big deal...is it radically different or just another name for a straight-limbed lb?  The reason for the question is that I am thinking about doing it once more to see if I can fall in love with Howards bow..

[longbowben]

Nothing radical 5 layers of  bamboo hand built great American longbow that shoots with authority.

[Bob B.]

I did not think Dave made hill style bows, I know he makes a stright D style longbow.  It has a locator grip with a tough of R/D to it, I ahve never seen a bow from him with a "broom handle" like on a Hill bow.  His longbow is real quiet, with little handshock and is narrow limbed, thick cored. It is a SMOOTH drawing bow.  You are correct, all of Dave's bows are works of art, especially the limb tips.

Bob.

[Orion]

Yep, Wesley's have five laminations of bamboo, Big 5s have four laminations, and Tembos have three laminations.  In theory, the five laminations enables Craig to use thinner laminations of bamboo which capture the the strongest section of the culn from which the laminations are cut. On the other hand, the extra glue joint for adding the fifth lamination tends to stiffen/reduce the fleibility of the limb some, such that the two features are probably offsetting.  At least that's my opinion.  They're all good bows.  Shoot the model you like to look at.

Bob, I guess I consider the "D" a hill style although it is not a straight stick...that is why I am asking y'all.  Coming from recurves to my first longbow made by OL Adcock.  I really don't know the d-bows all that well.  I liked Dave's bow a lot.

So...Ben, your short answer is "no"  nothing special..as in minimal or no difference in design and shooting characteristic?

[Rob DiStefano]

'hill style' and 'D braced' can be two very different bows.  i.e. - mild r/d longbows like mohawks have nothing seriously in common with a hill.

[Mudd]

Tony it's kind of like genetics..lol

All line breeding is inbreeding but not all inbreeding is line breeding.

With the exception of the Hill Badger I think I could say that all other Hills are "D" bows but not all "D" bows are Hills.

I hope I have clouded the issue.

God bless,Mudd

[leatherneck]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
'hill style' and 'D braced' can be two very different bows.  i.e. - mild r/d longbows like mohawks have nothing seriously in common with a hill.

x2!!!

I just found this out first hand. I tried both these bows recently. They are both great bows but with totally different "attitudes" if you will. I just ordered a Hill and the Mohawk will be coming when the taxes come back.  

[Rob DiStefano]

from a previous post i made comparing 'hawks and hills ....

there is no comparison 'tween the two bows as they are different in many ways that may not be visually available.

hill style longbows have narrow and deep limbs, with either some reflex, or straight, or follow, and brace to a "D" shape. as a result of their design, they are very stable, require longer bow lengths for a given draw length, and yes, you need to know how to shoot them to reduce the hand shock to a thump.

mohawk longbows have wider, thinner, trapped limbs with both mild limb reflex and riser deflex. as a result of r/d, they can be more efficient and pleasing in shorter lengths for a given draw length. they also brace to a "D" limb shape.

having owned and shot a gaggle of both bows ...

hills are aesthetically the most pleasing longbows, whether unbraced or braced. nothing sez 'trad archery/bowhunting' than a howard hill longbow and a quiver fulla woodies. i love 'em, i want 'em, i'll always have 'em.

however, 'hawks are much smoother on the draw and release with zero hand shock, while maintaining a good degree of 'stability' on the release. these bows simply exhibit more performance - faster arrow speeds, no shock or thump on release and they do like heavy arrows.

as always, ymmv - as it should!

[LongStick64]

My view is the less you complicate the Hill style bows the better. They are the no fuss bows of the trad world. I usually shoot bows in the 50 lb weight and I tried going higher to satisfy my macho. Only a Hill bow allows me to go high in weight, 75@28. Can't really explain why, just that it draws well, doesn't mind a little extra muscle action and spits out a quiet arrow, so what's not to love about them.

[Bob B.]

Macatawa,

I am glad you got to meet Dave, he is a great guy and a superb bowyer.  His bows are awesome. His longbow is a very stable, quick bow, that has a great profile both strung and unstrung.  They hunt well to boot.

Bob.

[Mudd]

LongStick64 I am glad you mentioned Hills of higher weight.

I traded for a Hill(66" and 60@28) not long ago that was way above what I considered my maximum draw weight limit to be just because I could and I knew the bow would make good trade material.

Much to my surprise and delight, I shot it and found I didn't have "any!" problem during or after shooting.

I am real curious as to what my upper limits might be now with this style of bow.

God bless,Mudd

PS: BTW I am normally shooting anywhere from 42 to 48#.

[Raging Water]

Macatawa,

This thread could go on for a while. You have touched an interesting point.

I have other bows that "technically" out perform my Hills. But, I love my Hill bows. Shoot a Big 5, for a while - not just a day or two, and you will understand.

Matt

[Bill Turner]

Macatawa you have a PM. Although I think the Wesley Special is a fine bow, I would not recommend it over my standard "Cheetah" TD, or for that matter my TD "RedMan" with 4 lams of yew. Craig calls the Wesley his top of the line bow. There is such little difference in price, why not buy the Wesley? That is the thought process that many of us go through when purchasing our first bow from Craig. Beware however, as "Harl" told me, you can't own just one Hill. Truer words have never been spoken.  

[straitera]

Wesley has always been HH pick of the litter bow. Can't tell much difference with their others but I do love Hills especially compared to recurves & flatter limb bows. You've made a good choice IMO. Bill's right...I'm Hill poor.

[Wannabe1]

I must confess that I liked the Wesley but, I'm liking my Tembo much more! My Owl and Redman are right there with it. I did have a Big5 I wish I had held on to because for some reason that bow just shot real well.

Good luck with which ever one you decide to go with.  

[longbowben]

Macatawa i cant tell you whats the big deal.All i know they were calling out to me,so i gave one a try.Now im hooked ,they are works of art and they shoot great.Next time you go to a shoot see if someone has one to try.

[Rick Butler]

I have a 64" Wesley, a 68" Tembo and a 68" Big Five.  The Big Five is on it's way back to Craig to see if some wt. can be taken off(currently 54#'s). With the Wesley, I don't know if it's the length or the locator grip but I struggle with consistency.  The Tembo is just plain fun to shoot!
 

 

A mild R/D bow like a Robertson and others can be shot using Hill/Schulz form just the same.  Not all Hill style bows have the same performance, some are more harsh and others put out a faster arrow without as much hand shock.  I think if a bow allows one to shoot with the Hill style form and tempo and still be stable and accurate, we should be careful to not make a prejudiced recommendation to someone that is not as familiar with them.  I personally hate to give advice to someone, just to have them spend their money and end up being frustrated with their purchase.  The old learn and try before you by, it is often difficult for some to understand what longbow form is.  One local wheelie shooter had the idea it was a 'flick draw' and the faster he could do it the better, even after I tried and tried to explain how to handle a longbow. He needed to be totally frustrated before he could grasp it, even after he watched videos and watched me shoot.

[GingivitisKahn]

What's the big deal?  I'm not sure but I think there's just something satisfyingly classic about Hill bows.  There are other knives out there with more advanced steel and better handles and so forth but there's nothing quite like a stag handled Randall.  I guarantee you can get better performance and efficiency from a modern foreign car but there is *nothing* like a '57 Chevy.

I think we're talking about the same intangible sweetness here.