Low Poundage Bows and Light Wt Arrow

[Friend]

A friend of mine which I shoot with often, is planning to hunt deer with a 45# @ 28" bow, which he draws ~26", and 438 gn arrows.

We are at the extremes for what I choose for an arrow design. I have suggested that his arrow weight selection is far too light and that this set-up could be deemed unethical, especially if you have better options, and that the animal deserves better. Yes, I believe a perfect shot with a 2 blade BH would work, but that would be what he would be restricted to.

This set-up disturbs me.

My concern is not at all with the 40# @ 26 draw wt. The concern deals with the arrow wt selected (438 gns) to be utilized in conjunction with 40# @ 26”.

My objective here is to provide proper guidance for this 1st time traditional hunter.

We are very good friends.


Suggestions for helping this archer out would be highly appreciated.

[traditional beagle]

At the old stand by rule of 9 - 10 grains per lb. bow weight I consider the arrow heavy enough. But, if the bow is truly #45 @ 28" and he is only drawing 26" then he is only drawing about #39 figuring a #3 drop of weight per inch. That is where I consider border line on enough poundage on deer sized game. Like you said perfect arrow placement is crucial and we all know that perfect shot doesn't happen every time.

[tradshooter]

Knowing his actual poundage rate in reference to his draw length may raise a flag as far as legality in your state for hunting deer. I would check the regs to see if his setup is legal. Many deer have been killed with lighter poundage bows and that cannot be disputed. Putting the arrow in the right place as indicated and a sharp broadhead are essential. How difficult would it be for him, to jump up a few pounds in bow weight and make up the difference? Best of luck to you and him!

[Stumpkiller]

You may not be helping him out at all if he can't shoot a heavier bow.  If he is accurate with that set-up, I see no issue.  He's likely only getting 40# or a hair better but it's better to hit good with 40# than gut-shoot with 60#.

There is nothing unethical about his set-up.  He's over 10 gpp which is one rule of thumb.  The state may mandate a bow weight or distance of cast.  (He'd be legal in NY for whitetail that can get over 250 lbs).

Whether a heavier arrow would help is again determined by whether he can hit using an arrow with a more pronounced trajectory.  I use 590 gr arrows but carrying only 125 gr heads because I have problems with a vertical spread if I try heavier.  Probably would eventually get used to it, but don't need to as I am happy at 125 gr.

[Friend]

The 10 gpp rule has its limitations.

Shooting 25# @ 28 and 250 gn arrows also meets the 10 gpp rule. I woulc conjecture that the gpp requirement would significantly rise as you move down in draw wt and draw length.

My concern is not upping his poundage, but that this low wt of 438 may be a poor choice.

Offering constructive guidance is the key here.

[Bowwild]

Hey Scott,
This year my set-up was a 46#@ 26" (52#@28")recurve with Beman MFX Classic 600s.  My arrows had 75 grain HIT inserts, 100 grain broadhead (single bevel Helix-2 blade) with 3, 4" feathers. The arrow weighed 415 grains.

I double-lunged 2 deer with this set-up. The first was 21 yards and the second was 16 yards. Both dropped in my sight at 59 and 52 yards respectively.  I had complete pass through on both.

I know my set-up was on the light side but it worked very well for me. I'm going to try to up the weight to 515 for 2011 by going to 500s with a 125 grain broadhead, just for the fun of it and maybe for a just a tad more margin.

I recall my early days in traditional (before the 34-year interruption by compounds)when it was very common for folks to hunt with factory-built bows of 45 and 50 pounds. Some of these folks were drawing less than 26" so I'm sure there were many deer killed by bows in the high 30's and low 40's. I killed my first deer in 1970 with a Ben Pearson Cougar speced at 45 pounds -- I bet I was only getting 39 or 40 out of it. I have no idea what my cedar arrows weighed because at 16 I knew NOTHING about tuning -- shoot, I hadn't even seen a live deer before killing that first one!

I wouldn't worry about his set-up if he's accurate, selective, and can keep sharp broadheads on those arrows.

P.S. Keep up the great work with those kids!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Friend:
A friend of mine which I shoot with often, is planning to hunt deer with a 45# @ 28" bow, which he draws ~26", and 438 gn arrows.

 

That sounds a lot like the setup my grandfather used to shoot through deer for decades. It worked just fine for him and a lot of other bowhunters back then.

I don't think whitetails have biologically evolved much over the last 30 years.

[kill shot]

Jason R. Wesbrock is right. So is stumpkiller. I use a 55# recurve on a regular basis but I am considering dropping down to a 4o# or 45# bow for the cold weather as they are easier to shoot. Like stumpkiller said, "Better to hit good with a 40# bow than to gut shoot with a 60# bow".

[BlacktailBowhunter]

That set up is legal for elk in Colorado. Is it ethical? That is a choice that each hunter has to make on their own, and it is none of my business.

I asked a well known bowyer about the 40# minimum for elk in Colorado as I had concerns that it was way to light, but he assured me that a well tuned arrow from his wifes bow passes completely through an elk. He then went on to tell me how tuning and arrow flight is far more important than the weight of a bow.

Ethics is a tough discussion to have with friends. If he is a good friend, I wouldn't let this issue come between you.

My suggestion is that he stay with his current set up.

Paul

[Zmonster]

I would hunt with it. I keep my shots under 15 yards, with a sharp BH. Whats to worry.

[coaster500]

Like Bowwild I shoot light equipment and use the Helix but shoot a bit more weight. I have old injuries that make it necessary. I am trying to work up to more weight but until then I have to shoot what I can accurately shoot.

This year I hunted Bear in Idaho and posted a thread here. This is the set-up part of the thread...

--------------------
I have to say that I was a little worried about my set up. I shoot a Big Jim Buffalo Bow 45@28 and I draw 27 ¼…I spent some time getting my arrows to fly right and ended with GT 35/55 trads full length RW Helical 4” feathers, 100 grain insert and a RW 100 grain Strickland Helix single bevel broadhead. Penetration was not an issue….
-----------

[coaster500]

This is the bear at 250#s or so...complete pass thru, died 25 or 30 yards from the hit.

 

It depends on the bow and the arrow flight.  A strong shot and good arrow flight from a lighter bow is always deadlier than a wobbly arrow shot with weak form from a too heavy bow for the shooter.  My wife has only once had the arrow stop in the deer, and that one the deer jumped the string.  The arrow entered the right rump and stopped stuck tight in the far left scapula, with a 37 at 26" Darton recurve.  Heavier has its advantages, but it does not disqualify a lower poundage fast shooting bow, a perfect flying arrow, a strong accurate shot and a sharp broadhead.

[ron w]

Practice ,practice ,practice....shots that are  under 20 yards with a sharp broadhead, he will do fine.

[Slasher]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
 

Originally posted by Friend:
A friend of mine which I shoot with often, is planning to hunt deer with a 45# @ 28" bow, which he draws ~26", and 438 gn arrows.

 

That sounds a lot like the setup my grandfather used to shoot through deer for decades. It worked just fine for him and a lot of other bowhunters back then. [/b]

I trust Mr Wesbrock's analysis... I did when my lil turkey hunting bow shot so well I wanted to make it my deer hunting bow!!! I'll just say the deer didn't seem to mind a bit...

I think with bemans or epics and good 2 blade he's got nuthing to fret about... I'd probably want a lil more weight be around 475 preferably with a high EFOC... But for whitetail I think he'd get pass throughs....    

[Stumpkiller]

Originally posted by kill shot:
Jason R. Wesbrock is right. So is stumpkiller. I use a 55# recurve on a regular basis but I am considering dropping down to a 4o# or 45# bow for the cold weather as they are easier to shoot. Like stumpkiller said, "Better to hit good with a 40# bow than to gut shoot with a 60# bow".

I recently had some health issues and went from 200# to 155# in a year without trying.  I'm not the lad I was; but I'm back to 170# (at 6'2", which is also short an inch from a year ago).  This past October I hunted with my 55#@28" recurve that I draw to 30# . . . but before climbing out of my tree I flung a blunt at a dead log.  Cold, and in my layers of clothes I could not get to full draw.  Rut Rho.  Since then I have shot at least three arrows every day (or dozens on the weekends) and have it back, but the writing was on the wall.  

I've got a selection of bows in two to five pound steps from 60#@28 down to 43#@28" and so I have my golden years planned out.  I've seen plenty of overbowed shooters, and I also had the pleasure of knowing a few "old timers" of the Zipper Club (open heart surgery) who hunted with bows in the light 40's and used little cedar arrows that blew through deer because they were sharp and tuned to fly very smoothly.  That and they were patient and chose their shots very carefully.

Age and treachery will aways triumph over youth and skill.

[coaster500]

"Age and treachery will aways triumph over youth and skill."

I like it  

[bornagainbowhunter]

I killed dozens and dozens of deer before I knew about 10gpp or FOC or EFOC.  I still have no idea how much my setup weighed or what kind of weight I was drawing back then.  I thought it was alot of weight and the 29" 2117s zipped right through deer.  

I know there is a good reason behind alot of this stuff, but we tend to nit-pic a setup to death over numbers and not real life experience.

I was talked roughly to from a guy on this forum a while back about a setup.  He told me about what I was doing wrong and how this should have been and how that should have been and on and on.  Then about 6 or 8 months later, he posts about killing his first deer with trad.  :confused:    Numbers ain't everything, experience is alot.

I am not trying to rant, but if this guy is at ease with his setup and feels like he can make a clean kill on a deer, let him alone.  His setup is fine.

God Bless,
Nathan

[Night Wing]

Look at my signature. Notice the poundages of my bows. Notice the overall weight of my arrows for each bow. Notice the GPP (grains per pound) of my arrows. At 20 yards and under, these arrows on a broadside lung shot (pass throughs) go through a deer like a hot knife through butter.

[Friend]

Guys,

Thank you for the candid feedback.

I was pushing for at least 13 gpp.

I will share your posts with him and apologize and relax knowing my conscious is at ease.

Thanks again!!