Paper tuning.....Does it really work or is it smoke and mirrors?

[PAPA BEAR]

i just put an x on the feathers of the good ones and thats that.  

[Zradix]

I've found paper tuning to be the best, easiest, and quickest way to tune the arrow to my bow/shooting technique so far.

YES, the arrow is always flexing as it travels to the target.
However, this flexing becomes less and less as the arrow travels.

Some here have stated they paper tested at 10yds.
I have found 10 yds to be way too far back to profit from paper tuning. The arrow and its fletching has already corrected its flight to a degree that makes it very hard to notice if it's tuned.

When the arrow is flexing around through its paradox it use using more energy per foot of travel than when it's flying straight.
So..we want to get that arrow flying straight as soon as we can without putting so much fletching on it to slow it's travel more than needed.

Now each arrow will paradox at a greater or lesser rate depending on your bow (how far from cut to center), how much fletching the arrow has, the spine of the arrow, the profile of the arrow (parr vs tapered), and to some degree the material the arrow is made from (carbon vs wood..even some woods are "snappier" than others)
..a clean consistent release helps too..lol

Anyway, myself and others have found that shooting at paper from about 7-8 feet..yes FEET..seems to be the "magic" spot.

I know bareshafting works. I've done it.
My problem with bareshafting is that you aren't testing your finished arrow. You need to account for the perceived stiffening of the spine caused by adding fletching. I would rather do my testing with an arrow setup in its finished state.

Some have said they need to retune after adding broadheads when paper tuning.
There are some broadheads that are so long they'll change your FOC a high enough degree to cause your arrows to flex differently.
I use 200grn grizz's (pretty long) and have not seen this change.

After paper tuning with field points, you can add a wt matched broadhead and your arrow will fly sweet as long as the broadhead is on straight.

I have wondered "So now my arrow punched a nice hole thru the paper at 7'. What is it doing at 10',15'...10yds...."

After testing my question..guess what..still punching holes..YAY! If I get much more than 15yds back the paper shows the arrow nock is low because of the trajectory or the arrow.

To each his own.

I would really recommend giving paper testing an honest try.  

Good luck whatever you do.
     

[Guru]

Excellent post Zradix    

[Covey]

I agree with Zradix, Well said! Jason

[LC]

I've always used bare shafting myself, and I've never had a arrow that didn't fly great spot on with broadheads. Maybe I'm just lucky or as Zradix said maybe thats mainly because of  the broadheads that I use.

[ishoot4thrills]

Originally posted by ProArcher:
Try this it works very well


  http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm  

X2! I was looking to see if anybody had posted this link before I was gonna do it. It's the same method I use to tune and it's been great so far and not complicated in the least bit.

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

I used to paper tune but now much prefer bare shaft tuning. I find bare shaft tuning a very accurate way to find the right spine arrow for the particular bow. I can generally get bare shafts to fly quite nicely, and then after fletching they are darts!
   Like stated earlier, a fletched arrow does not show how accurately the arrow is matched to the bow unlike a bare shaft does.
   The whole process isn't just shooting bare shafts but rather tinkering with tip weight, nock set, brace height, etc.
   I find that after the correct shaft is selected, it will shoot a broadhead properly. Paper tuning didn't always result in a tuned broadhead set-up where as bare shaft tuning does. Also, I should add that if I've properly done my homework in shaft selection that I can vary my tip weight by approx. 100 grains and maintain good arrow flight....Ryan

[kenn1320]

Excellent post Zradix

X2

 Admittedly Im still new to trad, only been doing it for 2-3yrs. That being said I have yet to have to "tune" for broadheads. Once I have the bow dialed in on paper, the bh's are on the money. Ive done this with 2 different bows with different poundages and 2 different bh's. What I did find with the paper tuning was Very helpful. Wheel bows always tuned easy on paper, but the one longbow was giving me fits. I started to recal some of my wheel bow experience and found out it was the shooter, not the bow. I messed with how I was holding the bow, found the best method for me with that bow. Then found a more relaxed glove hand also improved things considerably. Give paper tuning a try, you might find out more then you hoped for.    

ps. I tune at 5-8ft with the trad bows.
pss. I can paper tune in my basement after dark = more fun time.

[Tajue17]

I went to bare shafting because once I get an arrow that flys good I start canting the bow (or shooting my normal style) and fine tune the bareshafting even more. I can see the arrow enough where I don't have to deal with looking at paper.

just me but if you can't see the arrow then paper is the way to go I would suppose.

[SteveB]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
  I agree with Jeff.  Just because fletched arrows look like they're flying straight, doesn't mean they are. And just because arrows group, doesn't mean they're flying straight either.  I paper tune and bare shaft tune. If done properly, both work just fine.

As always, good advice from Jason.
Especially the bold part.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

There are a couple thing that you need to do when tuning is make sure that you have good form with out it, bare shaft or any other tuning is just that much harder by this I mean good release solid bow arm no death grip on bow follow through. also make sure that your string is settle in and you nock fit as tight. I had to learn this all over when I took up shooting a Traditional Bow.

[Old York]

I will share what I've found for myself. Bareshaft testing = somewhat of a 'coarse tune', paper tuning = more of a 'fine tune' and it's very expedient in showing one just where things are spine-wise. Also, paper tuning has shown me I can have a horizontal tear from 3 things: too stiff in spine, or too weak in spine, or a dodgy release.

I recommend bareshaft tuning  and  paper tuning, they're both good tools to keep in your kit, but they are not easily won and I urge patience and practice with them to see those consistent established trends in arrow flight/impact patterns.

[kenn1320]

This might be obvious, but Ill say it. When paper tunning, I like to hold the bow vertical, no cant. This helps diagnose left/right/up/down tears to what is causing them.

[dbishop]

Seems like a lot of good info here. I appreciate all the responses.  I have been using the Adcock method and have had some good results with it.  I had been hearing a lot about the paper tuning method but could not see how it would be helpful with a longbow or recurve due to the increased paradox.  Seems like it's really not an issue after all according to those who posted.

I have another question concerning arrow "forgiveness" but I'll start another thread about that.

Thanks again

Dave

[Buckhorn3380]

you can't go wrong either way, just have to learn your equipment and choose the best way for you

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I agree with Jeff. Just because fletched arrows look like they're flying straight, doesn't mean they are. And just because arrows group, doesn't mean they're flying straight either. I paper tune and bare shaft tune. If done properly, both work just fine.

That is what I find.  I do both to check. I have had bare shafts with HFOC fly great to my eye and POI.  I even had decent broadhead flight.  Then I started to do some paper tuning just to check and found they flew 1-2" out of line out to over 20 yd.  I don’t see how that could be good for penetration at all.  I then tuned some more with the paper to get near bullet holes from 20’ out. I can get a very little variation in paper tear from 15' to about 30' and then bullet holes after that with a decent release.  My broadhead flighti s as good if not better on most shots and I think more forgiving.

I shoot carbon, and I think that makes a difference in how fast the arrow stops flexing.  I also believe bow center cut makes a difference in how fast the arrow stops flexing.  I know it makes a difference in how much it flexes.

I also shoot at a lot of different distances when I paper tune.  If you only shoot at one you can be on the wrong flex of the arrow.  If the arrow is way weak or stiff you could be seeing the over correction vs. the true tear.  I like to start close.  Sometimes, believe it or not, I start at 2'-3' from the tip to the paper. Then walk back and shoot.  That basically gives me snap shots of the arrow flight as it travels.  I find that to be very helpful.

[Bow Bum]

Great stuff Zradix,

I had kind of written off paper tuning, until it was presented in this manner, which fills in some of the gaps for me.

ALTHOUGH I'm still reluctnat to try it because I'm not confident enough that the cause of some bad tearing could be my form, or release.

I may give it a shot though. I currently have an arrow combo I believe would produce favarable results.

Thanks,

B

[bubinga]

I am going to give this a try.  For you experts, when paper tuning do you tune for a slight nock high tear?  I have always been told that slight nock high is more forgiving and have always bareshafted to get my bare shafts to impact just below the fletched shafts.  Is this correct.

[Zradix]

BOW BUM...

I'm no great shot. My form...almost sucks lol.
However I am pretty consistent.
If your arrows are pretty similar (length, spine, pnt wt, fletching) you should see a repeating pattern in the tears. Of course when tuning shoot from the same distance each time.

If you're shooting a few arrows and the tears are all over the place (different from each other) just try shooting 1 individual arrow through the paper a few times. If in doing that you get widely varying paper tares I would say your form/release needs some work.

Chances are really good you'll see a repeating pattern though. And from that pattern you adjust your arrow (length or tip wt)

!!!IMPORTANT!!!.... DO YOURSELF A FAVOR!!!
If you feel you need to shorten your shaft a bit to stiffen it up go a little at a time. You can probably go 1/4" off at a time if the left/right tear is quite pronounced ( 1.5"+ laterally). Just remember to come back the next day and shoot your one shortened arrow to see if it is correct. I found that during a night of test shooting I had extended my draw a bit. I cut my arrows that night and the next day I had arrows that were too short. So just don't be in a hurry.

You'll see the results of wt change/length change pretty quickly and get a feel for how far to go.

Keep in mind that each arrow my be different.
Most recently I tuned in a doz tapered spruce arrows. They were wt matched and the spine were all within 3# of each other. I don't have a spine tester but I trust the man that did the work.

There were 2 arrows in that dozen that must have been 2# lighter than the others cause I needed to trim an extra 1/4" off those.

I just like being able to look at a tear in the paper. The paper doesn't lie..my eyes lie to me all the time.

Your paper "holder" doesn't need to be anything special. I literally have a 2x4 with one end laying on a high bench seat and the other a few steps up a ladder. I staple a piece of newspaper to the 2x4. I put a couple "squeeze clamps" on the bottom of the paper to hold it taught.

Just be sure you shoot at the paper square.
Good luck!!      

[Zradix]

Originally posted by bubinga:
I am going to give this a try.  For you experts, when paper tuning do you tune for a slight nock high tear?  I have always been told that slight nock high is more forgiving and have always bareshafted to get my bare shafts to impact just below the fletched shafts.  Is this correct.

I'm no expert.
I don't know if a nock high arrow is more forgiving or not.

Seems to me having a nock high arrow flight would scrub energy during flight, not enter your prey at the best angle, possibly make more feather noise, and wouldn't be using your feathers optimally since they are designed to go straight thru the air.

I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on this as I have never heard nock high=more forgiving. Maybe there's something to it.