"She likes heavy arrows"

[Apex Predator]

I see this posted a whole bunch on here, and thought it would be an interesting discussion.  I wholeheartedly agree that some bows have better manners with a heavier shaft.  I'm also thinking that harsher shooting bows benefit most.  The orignal bad manners can be attributed to bad design, bad tiller/timing, or maybe the shooter is just used to a heavier, more "dead in the hand" bow.  All bows recoil at the shot, but we all know that the straighter profile bows, that are lighter in weight, are the worst.  I still love the straight ones!

[hawk22]

I agree about the design.  I've got a few hybrid r/d bows that shoot an 8 gpp arrow very well but don't necessarily shoot a heavy arrow all that well, all arrows being properly spined of course.  My Great Northern critter gitter which is a milder r/d bow shoots everything but it really shoots about a 12 gpp arrow wonderfully.  Hard to beat a mild r/d or straight limbed longbow!

[broketooth]

matry i just built my first bow. a 2 pieces takedown selfbow at that.i had taken it to bernies home to let him shoot. i think he had some river cane arrows made by artb. thes arrows were spined 40-45. my bow draws 47#@28 the formentiond arrow flew great. now as bernie said to me rivercane is very forgiving in archer error.one thing i do think is true that to loose of a grip on the grip will cause alot of hand shock too, especially in straight limbed bows, do you agree. ruddy

[Apex Predator]

I feel that if the bow has shock, a looser grip will make it jump more in the hand, but be trasmitted up your arm less.

I think bows that do well with light arrows also do well with heavy arrows.  The shooter just doesn't feel the advantage, because the bow has good manners to start with.

[Guru]

Marty, Good topic....

I've been seing all these "Hill" bow threads lately and have been wondering what changed all of a sudden....they've always had their die hard fans....but the vast majority of what I used to hear was that they'd shake your teeth out and a lot of guys had to stop shooting them because of wrist/elbow/shoulder problems form the shock! I've tried a couple for one or two shots...that was enough!

So what has changed?

Is it just that a lot more guys are shooting heavier arrows now and are "covering up" the problem with them?

 Or have their been significant improvement in design?

[Ric O'Shay]

Most r/d bows are designed with a larger and therefore heavier riser. I believe this and the limb design are the major contributors to their feel. Given that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, the heavier riser will naturally absorb more of the power of the limbs upon release. The heavier the arrow, the more it will absorb the power, therefore resulting in less feel of the shot to the hand.....Did that make sense?

Curt, I've been shooting Hill bows for about 35 years. Some made by Schulz, others made by Ted Kramer and the latest made by Craig. To my knowledge, other than the bowyer, the design has not changed since "Hector was a pup". I believe what has changed is the new generation of shooters that don't know how to shoot a Hill bow. You can't grip it as you would a recurve or r/d bow, more care has to be given to the arrow selection and you, as the shooter must develop a relationship with the bow. One or two shots, without the proper introduction, just isn't enough.
Sorta like going on a first date. You put your hand in the wrong place and the lady will slap the snot out of you.
I believe the popularity of the Hill bows has increased lately because more folks are willing to spend and have been spending more time with the bow.Therefore developing that relationship and romance with the design and the bow.

[Rob DiStefano]

looks like we got a buncha different threads with the same theme going, so i'll repeat ...

not all hill-style longbows (actually, american flat longbows) are alike, nor will all jar yer arm and teeth.

so what are the advantages, if any?

welp, they do look kinda cool.      aside from that, they do offer a large measure of "stability" in the shot, since the limbs are narrower and deeper than typical r/d style or plains flatbows.  i think there will always be a fascination with these type of simplistic looking longbows, and that's about it.

what are the drawbacks, if any?

to be factual, more than a few.  imo, they can be a challenge of sorts.  not all are made alike and some will downright hurt ya.  no matter what the limb-set (back, straight or follow), they need to be lots longer than an r/d longbow or recurve, for any given draw length.  lots longer.  they aren't speed demons, but they typically love very heavy arrows.  it takes time to get used to a 68" bow where before you got by just fine with 62" or even 58".  the approach to shooting an american flat longbow, in terms of form, will require adaptation and perhaps a slight change in form - you work with the bow, it typically won't work with you.  

imho, what sez "traditional bowhunting" better than a good american longbow and a back quiver loaded with twin blade woodies?  however, adapting that idyllic image to reality, therein lies the further challenge of traditional bowhunting with a "hill style" longbow.  nope, not for everyone - but still cool to admire!   :cool:

[Night Wing]

It isn't just longbows that like heavy arrows. Experimenting one day, I found my two 66" Blacktail take down recurves love a stiff very heavy arrow which you can see in my signature. I think it's because I've got a 30" draw length and both bows have 23.5" limbs.

[BWD]

I have always wondered, when someone says she likes a heavy arrow, if it really means she won't do well with a light arrow? Just how heavy of an arrow are we talking about in gr/lb?

[Jerry Jeffer]

The arrow I shoot from my longbow is 765gr. I shoot 55# @ my draw. you do the math.

[Apex Predator]

I like to shoot heavy arrows because they give me more horse power out of the fairly light bows I hunt with.  I consider anything around 12gpp or more heavy.  I consider 12-13 gpp just right for me, but I don't shoot long ranges.  I'm just a bowhunter.  One day I'll start shooting 3D again, and I'll probably shoot 9-10 gpp.

[AdamH]

Me too Marty !!

[coaster500]

When say one of my bows likes a heavy arrow it means that for some reason that bows doesn't lose as much speed as the weight increases. In other words three different bows at say 50#s might have one in the group that by design or what ever seemed to maintain more power or speed as load increases? I don't know if this makes sense but it's something I have observed (or maybe Momma dropped the wrong mushrooms in the soup). One thing is for sure, the heavier the quieter    

[Pinelander]

The best thing going for a bowhunter who prefers taking the shot at close range.... a "d-shape when strung" bow and a heavy arrow. Silence is good!

[Fischman]

I've also found that between 12-13 gpi my bows are the quietest and perform fine in trad bow range. A whisper that animal never sees coming !!

[Clint B.]

A lot of the hand shock, or lack thereof, when shooting a Hill-style bow depends on how you hold your bow arm and grip the bow. Several years ago, I handed my Dick Palmer Longbow (actually made by Jerry Hill) to one of my hunting buddies at the archery range. He always held his bow arm straight, drew about 30" (even though he was barely 6' tall) & held his recurve bow with a straight wrist and loose grip. Of course, I wasn't thinking about this when I handed him my bow to try out. Anyway, when he shot at the 20 yd. target, my bow also shot out of his hand and it landed about 8 or 10 yds down range. Luckily, it only resulted in one small nick. It's a humerous story we share from time to time.

[Steelhead]

"Likes a heavy arrow"

I have a few bows like that.For me that means the bow just shoots quieter and is more pleasant on the release,shoots softer and feels better.The bow may be more efficient as well with a heavy arrow.

For some bows a heavy arrow is the only way to go.Can turn what seema like a lemon into a cherry pie.

Some bows feel like a totally different bow when shot with heavy arrows.For me heavier is 11-12 grains per pound.

[coaster500]

I may have given the impression that I shoot super heavy arrows. I shoot 10 to 12 gpp the rest is just my observations. I shoot R/D longbows that's plenty quiet for me and gives me a reasonable trajectory. Heavy or light the spine must be right:) Inside 15 yards if you find you are more accurate with a heavier arrow better check the spine of the lighter one.

[SpankyNeal]

I always thought it was a leverage thing. Those long straight limbs just seem to be better at holding recovery speed as arrow weight goes up than do those coil spring recurve limbs. I've seen several posts over the years comparing arrow speeds between Hills and others, and about everyone shows a much less difference in arrow speed with increased weight from the Hill than the recurve.

I think tiller has alot to do with it as well. Bows that get their power from further down the limb tend to be better with heavy arrows than others. This may be the reason that static tipped recurves seem fast than those with working tips. The thicker lower limb is just more efficient at moving heavy weight than the thin tips IMHO.

Spanky

[Molson]

What bowhunter says, "Man my bow really loves a light arrow?"  Would that be a good thing?  There's nothing wrong with having a bow that feels or behaves better with a heavy arrow.  Shoot just about any trad bow with 6 gpp and you're probably gonna like it a whole lot better when you bump it back up above 9.