"Hill" style bows...Why all of sudden?

[Steve Clandinin]

Swamp,What you say sums it all up,Kudus my friend.I honestly think in our Hi-Tec world many want to go back to more tranquil times.

[RC]

One more reason I shoot a Hill bow while slipping for pork in warm weather...It has reach advantage over a short r/d for flipping cottonmouths out of the way....RC

[WESTBROOK]

Once I'm in the woods hunting, my shooting it has to have become "second nature" because my thoughts won't be about the bow any longer and I have plenty to think about and enjoy my bow in a whole different way during the hunt.

Right on the money Mudd !!

I never shot a Hill bow till '08. Spent a couple hours with Steve Turay at K'zoo going over grips and basic "mechanics" of the the bow. He got me shooting pretty wel in a short time, he managed to sell me a Shelton in the process. Been lovin' it ever since!!

Yep, you shoot them different than a recurve..or..do you shoot a recurve different than a longbow.. I dunno..dont care either.

I guess what matters at the end of the day is..shoot what you enjoy and enjoy what you shoot.

Eric

[WESTBROOK]

One more reason I shoot a Hill bow while slipping for pork in warm weather...It has reach advantage over a short r/d for flipping cottonmouths out of the way....RC

LOL ..RC..If I ever get down there I'll be bringin my 84" bow!!

Eric

[leatherneck]

Originally posted by RC:
One more reason I shoot a Hill bow while slipping for pork in warm weather...It has reach advantage over a short r/d for flipping cottonmouths out of the way....RC

You always have to bring up the snakes,dont you. I think you do this just to torment me.  

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally posted by RC:
One more reason I shoot a Hill bow while slipping for pork in warm weather...It has reach advantage over a short r/d for flipping cottonmouths out of the way....RC

Any y'all wonder why we stay up north here and put up with all the ice and snow! ;-)

[Dick in Seattle]

Great whistling fire arrows!   I go out to a shoot for a day, come back tired and go to bed and in a day and a night you guys fill ten pages with my favorite subject!        

Good discussion, and, as has been said so many times, there really isn't a definitive answer, any more than "Why blonds or brunettes?"   Folks differ in what appeals to them and how they react to given experiences.   Some try something, don't have a good reaction and move on, others decide to stick till they master it just out of stubbornness.  That' was me... the bow appealed and I was determined.  It took me awhile to learn to shoot the Hill as well as i could a recurve, and I'm not sure I'm there yet... I'd have to go shoot a recurve!      

As to why now, I think over the past few years, Hill style bows have acquired a few evangelical believers who have been beating the drum. (Yep,, guilty here), me, Mudd, Raging Waters and others.   The Hill Longbowmen list is about three years old now and they've collected a lot of info for folks.   So, there's been a lot of smoke... hopefully, even some fire.

As to hand shock, I've given up.  Some folks experience it to greater degrees than others.  Personally, it's part of my belief that there is no such thing as an inanimate object, and the bows know when you don't trust them or like them. I just know that they can be built for smoothness.  They have narrow, heavy cores and if they're built for max draw weight and speed, a lot of force is going to have to be absorbed by relatively little mass.  

I had a guy here for coaching Thursday.  He'd been shooting both recurves and longbows.  He drew half a dozen of mine and his eyes got so wide the yard lit up!  He was having what I call a "chainsaw moment"... (What's that noise?!)

Hill style will always be a small niche but I hope and suspect, always a passionate one.  Somewhere in the backs of our minds, when we think traditional, we're looking for a return to simplicity, and while Howard did cross the line (in my opinion) when he added the shelf, which I regard as high tech, what bow is simpler?

[maineac]

I have always liked the simple look of a hill style, but have not found one I like to shoot (haven't looked super hard since every one I try has more vibration than I like).  Bought a Horne from Robtattoo to try a cross from my recurve towards a longbow.  Shoot that better than my recurve.  Maybe the next step will be a hill style, but for now I am happy with the in-between I am shooting.  But this has been a great discussion, and the variety of opinions is what makes this such a super place to learn.  Plus my wife and compound buddies just don't like to talk trad stuff.

[Overspined]

this thread is rediculous. Bows are like fishing lures now, they catch the eye of the buyer. They all do the same thing, and I have shot curves that would rattle your teeth too. There are a bunch of types and designs etc, and grips galore. If Hill bows were any worse than any other for whatever reason, they wouldn't be around. For some they shoot great, for others not...so just shoot what you like and really, who cares if you don't like them...but until you can beat all those who shoot them, I am not sure you have a point. Name another archer not trained by Hill that could compare and shoots recurves, I can't.

[Raging Water]

Originally posted by Overspined:
Name another archer not trained by Hill that could compare and shoots recurves, I can't.

Hmmm? Interesting point.

Matt

[Kapellmeister]

Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
 

One more reason I shoot a Hill bow while slipping for pork in warm weather...It has reach advantage over a short r/d for flipping cottonmouths out of the way....RC

LOL ..RC..If I ever get down there I'll be bringin my 84" bow!!  Eric [/b]

I dunno... I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot... bow!

[kbertsch]

I think the main problem is guys don't shoot them right they try to get behind them and shoot them off the web of there hand like a recurve and that sends a shock straight up there arm.cant it and  shoot off the side of the bow. this is a lot easier to demonstrate then to explain.

[Rob DiStefano]

i guess i'm an anomaly of sorts when i comes to shooting straight handled hill-style longbows.  or any longbow grip, for that matter.  it may be hard to see in the below images, but the weight of the bow carries on the inside of the thumb flesh, close to the forefinger/thumb web.  i took a few shots and left the bow hand in the same position and snapped the image.  although i hadda grip the bow a bit tight so it wouldn't slip when taking the photo, this is not a tight grip at all, it's fairly loose and the fingers just keep the bow from punching forward on release and dropping.  

my bow hand is skewed off at an angle - i never use or need an armguard.  

my grip ...
 

 

not my grip ...
 

 

[Terry Green]

I'll try and read more than the first page if I get time.......

I have a 78# Cheetah that I don't think is shocky at all.

I think the HH threads are cool......and good to see HH bows are alive and well.

[Ben Maher]

Rob, good pics...I don't need to wear an armguard either as i use approx the same grip .

Pics of you and your Hill Cheetah Terry ?
C'mon .....

[lpcjon2]

I hold the same as you Rob but I leave the ring and pinky finger loose and barely touching.

I have seen guys holding there Hills way out the thumb.  that doesn't make any sense to me at all.  Why put all that force against the strength of one relatively weak finger joint?  I heel my Hills and get all the way into my hand.  If someone is shooting a heavy Hill like did for most of my adult life, they would not have much of a thumb left.  I have a tight enough grip on mine so they do not move in my hand and I do not have any handshock issues.  I think it is more an element of stubbed off shooting technique versus dynamic fluid technique.  One either develops it or one goes back to curvy bows.

[Rob DiStefano]

i like having the force with and not against me.  

deep handles promote torque, therefore i like them narrow and rounded.

gripping a bow handle like a handshake promotes too much hand-to-handle contact for me.  increased contact allows for variables as to where the compression between my hand and handle will occur.  doesn't take much for my wrist to rotate and shift the leverage from the heel of the hand to the web of the forefinger and thumb, and vice-versa - with that kinda grip.

i want, and use, as small a point of contact 'tween me and the bow.  small contact = one basic pressure point 'tween hand and bow.  getting that pressure point to line up best with wrist and arm further lessens unwanted movement.

so, though it looks like i'm shaking hands with the handle, all the hand pressure is on the left side of the top part of the meat of the thumb, closer to the web between the forefinger and thumb.  then i skew/angle the hand/wrist to the left for string clearance.

that's just what's worked best for me for too many decades.

[dave kueber]

When I pick up a bow I don't want to think about what part of my anatomy goes where or why my arrow ended up at the location it did; I just want to hit the spot I'm looking at. After many years of trying to sort through the choices, I've settled on string follow Hill style bows. These Hill threads are great and it's fun reading the opinions of all. For me, it's the pure simplicity of a bow that hunts good!

[Raging Water]

Next week, I will get my 100# HH Elephant bow back from Craig. He modified the grip. I will post some pictures then.

Matt