"Hill" style bows...Why all of sudden?

[Rik]

I hold my Hill bows exactly the same way I hold a recurve. The only difference is that I put the pressure on the web of my hand with recurves, and put the pressure on the bottom part of the heel of my hand with Hill bows.

I also use a fairly straight bow arm that is already extended and pointing right at what I want to hit before I ever draw the bow.

The arrows go right where they are pointed.

I must be missing something. . . but it's not the target!

[Cookus]

I'm with you Rik!   Howard Hill longbows or Black Widow recurves, my hand stays the same as Ipcjon2 described above.

[Terry Lightle]

I have owned 2 Hill bows,was not really impressed just not my cup of tea.Guess that is why they still make different brands of about everything.Everbody likes something different,to each his own.

I had opinions about short hybrid bows, at least until I took a shot with a Shrew and got my wife her customized to her 26.5" Lost Creek NAT, it is hard to argue with the performance and accuracy from these bows. There is a reason there are so many to choose from, they work. I hold low pistol and locator grips much the same as Rob. My hand is thicker in the base muscles so I heal the straighter grips, for me getting a hold of it gives me the most torque free control of a longbow.

[arrow flynn]

i have shot my best 3d scores w a 44 lb wesley special with a wedge grip nate steen put on it you get used to it that bump for want of a better description im not ready to shoot a prune off someones head but  howard hill has demonstated what is possible and all that shoot the d bow live that dream imho

[Sam McMichael]

I guess my friends are right - I must be a true Neanderthal. I just don't understand the problem with handshock that so many guys have experienced with Hill bows. Perhaps I am simply insensitive to it. However, I do use a very firm grip down on the heel of my hand, though, much firmer than when I shot recurves. Also, I recommend shooting the heavier shafts as some of the other guys have stated.

In terms of classic "traditional" looks, the Hill bow, to me,  is the ultimate representation. I like the lightness in my hand that my Hill bows provide, and I find them very smooth on the draw. Besides, what else goes better with the wooden arrows I like so much? In the end, I guess its as simple as this: "some like 'em, some don't."

[Bob B.]

Well, I love longbows, like everyone else I reckon.  I shoot ok, not great, but love to shoot just the same.  I have found my brain and heart want to shoot D-shaped bows, so I do.  I shoot very mild R/D bows best, but have always wanted a hill and so I am pursuing one.  It is not a smart move on my part, I do not need one for sure ... I want to own and shoot a Hill bow, so there it is.  I guess the heart wants what it wants.

Bob.

[snakebit40]

Bob B.-
I don't know if I've told you yet but I love my Tembo. Very little hand shock and just plain fun to shoot. I have to admit though it is a little to heavy RIGHT NOW. At my draw its pulling somewhere between 75 and 80 pounds, need to get it on a good scale. I was shooting heavy arrows but it was a pleasure to shoot.    

[Looper]

You know, every bow ever made, regardless of the style, has a specific pressure point on the grip that allows the limb to be timed perfectly.  That is, the tips return to the brace height at exactly the same instant. Most Hill-style bows are tillered so that that pressure point is in the middle of the handle. If you use a grip that has a higher pressure point, you get handshock (the tips not returning to brace height at the same time). A heavy limbed bow will amplify the shock. It's just a matter of physics.

Certainly a hill-style bow can be tillered to accommodate a high wrist, recurve style grip, but if it isn't, it'll jar you. The heavier and thicker the limbs, the more shock you'll get.  Again, physics.

The way Rob D grips his Hills, is a little higher pressure point than I use on mine, but I think he uses a 3 under grip, which essentially moves the pivot point higher on the grip. And he might buy bows specifically tillered for the way he shoots. My Hills, if shot the way Rob does, give me a good buzz. It's not bad if I shoot the way he holds his bow hand and I use my regular split finger grip. But they work best if my hand pressure is a little lower on the handle. The key, like Rob said is to make sure you are consistent and try to have a small a contact point as possible.

If you put a bow on a tiller tree, it's very easy to see where that bow is designed to be held.

That being said, I choose to shoot a Hill because: it's quiet, it's light, it's simple, it's forgiving, it shoots heavy arrows almost as fast as it shoots lighter arrows, it's smooth, it's easy to string and unstring, and I like the way they look. I can shoot it from just about any position. Sitting, kneeling, laying on my stomach, crouched over, reverse cant. The length is an obstacle at times, but I can deal with that.

[AdamH]

We're all Bored, I guess ?? Want to make things harder & more Traditional ... Least, I do ...

[Bob B.]

I should have also mentioned i ahve a bad elbow on my bow arm.  I struggle because I tend to shoot with a very high wrist hand placement ... this ultimately leads to a straight arm and then such elbow pain that I stop shooting.  So I started "regripping" mybows so I shot low wrist almost straight grip, that forces me to change grip and use a bent elbow.  Now I shoot well again with no pain.  So that has also lead to my curiosity of a Hill as the grip is straight.  

Lastly, I love thin in width, deep cored limbs like my Deathwish or Longwalker.  That limb profile has always shot better for me.  I did get an Abbot longbow recently at low poundgage to assist with my elbow.  It is a semi locator grip that is pretty straight (thin cored limbs however) and I do not have much pain shooting it ... plus it is yew and cocobolo so WOW is it sexy!

Bob.

[Bob B.]

Snakebit, I am looking at a Cheetah  currently.  You shoot a tembo @ 70 plus ... Damn!

The bow I am looking at is 34@26, so like 44 at my 30 inch draw.  I figured going light might the best way to figure them out as well as not to stress my elbow.  We will see.

Bob.

[sawtoothscream]

i shot a d shaped bow a like 2 weeks ago and it was a great shooter. smooth draw and shock was very little. idk if it was a mild r/d that braced to a D though, maybe that would explain why it was such a nice shooter. i want one just like it bad

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by sawtoothscream:
i shot a d shaped bow a like 2 weeks ago and it was a great shooter. smooth draw and shock was very little. idk if it was a mild r/d that braced to a D though, maybe that would explain why it was such a nice shooter. i want one just like it bad

unbrace the bow and look at the limbs, then you'll know for sure if it's a hybrid mild r/d or an afl.  wanna bet which one it is?  

[Stone Knife]

Original quote by Howard Hill

"I use the straight-end split bamboo longbow for the simple reason that it requires a less exacting hold and loose to get necessary accuracy while hunting, where quick shots must be made from unconventional positions standing, kneeling or sitting not the traditional target archer's pose."

[Benny Nganabbarru]

You know, I really like Howard Hill and his bows and his stories and movies, but I must disagree with his famous statement (above). Or at least I think it needs to be qualified a little. I'm guessing he made the comment about the early recurves which may (or may not have) been a bit more tricky to master. But I truly believe that it is the modern recurve in the general style so common that has truly opened the doors to successful hunting and shooting to more archers. Also, the shape of those contraptions that they shoot at the Olympics is closer to our typical recurves, so that must say something. That said, I love my Hills. But I love other bows, too.

[Rob DiStefano]

and to add to what stone and ben just said, the blend of howard's afl longbow and the recurve of ben pearson gave birth to the hybrid longbows of today, offering the stability of the american flat longbow, and the performance of the modern recurve ... too bad howard never got to use a hybrid.

[dragonheart]

Maybe the resurgance and interest in the "Hill" is that many tradtional bowhunters are coming to the same conclusion that Howard Hill did so many years ago.  

"...a bow that is short, recurved on the ends, set back in the handle, has delicate ends on its limbs, takes a light string, is exceptionally fast, and does not misbehave in the hand on the recoil is commonly called a sensitive bow.  All these characteristics tend to make a graceful, beautiful bow that is fast of cast and that will shoot accurately when aimed and loosed with perfect technique, but woe be unto him who makes the least mistake in shooting a sensative bow of this type.
A straight-end longbow that follows the string slightly, with good cast, carries a heavy string, is pleasing to draw, and is comfortable in the hand, can be shot much more accurately under hunting conditions than a sensative bow." Howard Hill, Hunting the Hard Way p. 85-86

[Lambow]

Ahhh... but he did try a hybrid.
I remember an interview with Bob Stotler in one one the earlier issues of TBM.
Bob related the story of Howard shooting a reflex/deflex longbow that the Stotler brothers used to make called the "Gamebuster".

After shooting a quiver full of arrows from it, he turned to them and said - That's the fastest bow in the world, then handed it back to them and walked off... and never shot that bow again.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Lambow:
Ahhh... but he did try a hybrid.
I remember an interview with Bob Stotler in one one the earlier issues of TBM.
Bob related the story of Howard shooting a reflex/deflex longbow that the Stotler brothers used to make called the "Gamebuster".

After shooting a quiver full of arrows from it, he turned to them and said - That's the fastest bow in the world, then handed it back to them and walked off... and never shot that bow again.

ah, but that wasn't a modern hybrid at all, it was a recurve made to look like a longbow.  there's a strong difference, indeed.  the hybrid mild r/d longbows of today are nothing like what was thought of in the 70's.  like apples 'n' oranges.