"Hill" style bows...Why all of sudden?

[Ray]

I have owned to Hills and what keeps drawing me back is the light in the hand and smooth draw.The smooth draw was most likly due to the 68" lenght which also helped the fingers.

[Joe Subler]

A few years back when I first bought a Hill Cheetah I almost sold it because of the hand shock but I got hold of a member here named Dick Wright who has quite a detailed description on the proper way of holding a hill so I tried his method and the next thing I knew the handshock was almost totally gone - certainly no worse than my Dakota.  Love it and, by the way, thanks Dick.

Joe

[Mudd]

For years I allowed my 1st experience with longbows to mar my willingness to try another. The 1st one I shot was an "Ol Ben" or something close to taht name.

I only had it borrowed for a time and it really spoiled me but not in a good way as I can all too clearly recall..lol

If I'd have had the same experience with my second longbow, chances are I'd be shooting recurves or even a wheel bow today.

I can tell you that I am drawn to them like a magnet because of the way they make me feel.

If I need to explain that further then chances are I'm not going to be successful in getting my point across.

They aren't better than any other good bow, nor are they for everyone. (I am grateful for this one)...lol

I am the archer and bow hunter I want to be when I am armed with my longbow.

God bless,Mudd

PS:When instructing others how to hold one of my bows I tell them to hold it like a girlfriend/bowfriends hand that you really like. Don't crush it but hold onto it as if you don't want them to get away.

[Rob DiStefano]

my first glass/wood longbow was a mid 60's an "itasca" that i mail ordered direct from herters (remember them?) - 70", 53# @ 28", jarred the living heck out of anyone shooting that beast.  totally wrong and poor design.

you can cheat on form with most stick bows, but not with a hill style!  as i said b4, you don't make this kinda longbow work for you, it makes you work for it!  the rewards can be so satisfying, too!

[Lee Robinson .]

I have had a few, and while I certainly could feel the handshock regardless of bowstring and/or arrow weight, there is no doubt that dynaflight combined with a heavy arrow would get rid of the annoying vibration and bring the bow to a level that was not annoying...although still clearly noticable, it just didn't bother me.

I agree that one must hold a HH bow correctly...like a suitcase as HH himself put it. With the right grip, a bent bow arm, and the proper follow through...the thump of a Hill type bow certainly remains but it shouldn't hurt. If it hurts, I would say one is either gripping it wrong or needs to bend their bow arm some.

Now...all that said, I moved to the r/d longbow because I feel a well designed one will do everything a Hill type bow will do and do it better...maintaining the stabilty, durability, and quietness of the hill bow, but getting more speed and eliminating the handshock which can break down some archer's form.

Despite the stability of the longbow, the scores of top recurve shooters is often higher and I think it is because few archers are able to maintain their form when shooting a bow that has so much "action/reaction" as such causes an archer to react. Few react with the right follow through because they don't start out with the right position for that type of equipment.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Protege Longbows:
I have had a few, and while I certainly could feel the handshock regardless of bowstring and/or arrow weight, there is no doubt that dynaflight combined with a heavy arrow would get rid of the annoying vibration and bring the bow to a level that was not annoying...although still clearly noticable, it just didn't bother me.

...

that's an excellent statement and one i've found quite true.  i'll add that in my own testing, lower strand count hmpe strings further lowered the vibes and noise levels.

[longbowben]

HH bows are awesome.I have shot recurves and hated them,Then i shot r/d longbows and their very nice.But once i shot a Hill im hooked ,its all about being individuals shoot what we like and what works for you.And nothing can out perform or do anything better than a hill bow if that's what you shoot better.IMOP

[Molson]

Somebody said there's gonna be a bunch of them in the classifieds if guys buy them who haven't shot them...  I have to agree.  They aren't for everyone.

I can't explain why, but I just keep coming back to them.  Some of them do kick the crap out of you until one day you actually shove your hand into the bow and it all disappears into a mild thump.  They either fit your style or they don't.  There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.  There's just something wonderfully fun about shooting them once you take the time to appreciate it.

I just ordered a Northern Mist Classic at Kzoo for me and one for my son.  The bows Steve Turay is making are, in my opinion, some of the finest examples of the American style out there.  

With all that said, if I wanted to buy just one longbow, and never buy another, I would buy a 64" Black Widow PL TD. They really are just amazing.  There may be bows as good, but there is nothing better.  The bows BW had at Kzoo were absolutely stunning.

[longbowben]

Molson i hope there are some lefty's, im looking for more of them.I agree there not for everyone.

[robtattoo]

Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                   

How many excuses can you make for an obvious design flaw?
If Ford (Chevy/Dodge/GMC... delete as appropriate) made a truck that, by design, pulled sharply to one side, would you say

"That's just how they are. You need to haul like hell on the wheel & lean the opposite way all the time. You just need to drive them how they demand"

Or would you return it to the dealership & tell him it was a pile of badly designed crap?

[Rob DiStefano]

quote:Originally posted by robtattoo:
 

quote:Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                   

[Molson]

Originally posted by longbowben:
Molson i hope there are some lefty's, im looking for more of them.I agree there not for everyone.

Steve had a couple leftys in your weight.  One of them had that fantastic green glass.  If you leave now, you can make Kzoo by 4p!  

[robtattoo]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
robbo, tell us how ya *really* feel ...      

LOL! You'd ban me!  

[Guru]

Originally posted by robtattoo:
 

Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                     

How many excuses can you make for an obvious design flaw?
If Ford (Chevy/Dodge/GMC... delete as appropriate) made a truck that, by design, pulled sharply to one side, would you say

"That's just how they are. You need to haul like hell on the wheel & lean the opposite way all the time. You just need to drive them how they demand"

Or would you return it to the dealership & tell him it was a pile of badly designed crap? [/b]

I gotta admit, I feel the same as Rob about that one...

If you guys have to go thru all that, just to "get it right", I don't see the advantage...

It's all about what you like I guess...

But the way I hold a bow, I guess a "Hill style bow" will never be for me...

And I'm not about to change how I shoot for a certain type of bow. I grip very loose and don't wrap.  I've had longbows fall right out of my hand because of handshock.

Different strokes I guess...

[straitera]

Whew..."badly desdigned piece of crap"? That's perception right? Never worked to shoot my longbows. They're right for me. But, pistol grips tank me. No tanks.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Guru:
 

Originally posted by robtattoo:
 

Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                           

How many excuses can you make for an obvious design flaw?
If Ford (Chevy/Dodge/GMC... delete as appropriate) made a truck that, by design, pulled sharply to one side, would you say

"That's just how they are. You need to haul like hell on the wheel & lean the opposite way all the time. You just need to drive them how they demand"

Or would you return it to the dealership & tell him it was a pile of badly designed crap? [/b]

I gotta admit, I feel the same as Rob about that one...

If you guys have to go thru all that, just to "get it right", I don't see the advantage...

It's all about what you like I guess...

But the way I hold a bow, I guess a "Hill style bow" will never be for me...

And I'm not about to change how I shoot for a certain type of bow. I grip very loose and don't wrap.  I've had longbows fall right out of my hand because of handshock.

Different strokes I guess... [/b]

nope, hill-style is probably not for you.  you'd be best served by a mild r/d longbow - shorter limbs, nice 'n' comfy slim locater handle, smooth drawing and no "hand shock" ... i can think of one that'd be real nice for ya ....  

[Pinelander]

"I don't see the advantage..."

That in itself might be one of the reasons people like d-bows. They are actually looking for more of a challenge in their archery. :-)

I can say this about the d-bows.... folks are more aware of the low-stretch string materials available today. And I do believe that is the biggest factor in turning a heavy thumper into a light thumper.

[Rob DiStefano]

it's not about "D" bows, it's about hill-style american flat longbows.  there's a huge difference,  "D" braced longbows can be had by most bowyers in a mild r/d limb/riser configuration.

to me, there's only ONE reason to wanna shoot a hill-style longbow - AESTHETICS.  

you want the best performance in a longbow?  gotta be an aggressive r/d design.  

want "middle of the road" "faux hill-style"?  go with a mild r/d longbow.

[SpankyNeal]

Originally posted by Guru:
 

Originally posted by robtattoo:
 

Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                           

How many excuses can you make for an obvious design flaw?
If Ford (Chevy/Dodge/GMC... delete as appropriate) made a truck that, by design, pulled sharply to one side, would you say

"That's just how they are. You need to haul like hell on the wheel & lean the opposite way all the time. You just need to drive them how they demand"

Or would you return it to the dealership & tell him it was a pile of badly designed crap? [/b]

I gotta admit, I feel the same as Rob about that one...

If you guys have to go thru all that, just to "get it right", I don't see the advantage...

It's all about what you like I guess...

But the way I hold a bow, I guess a "Hill style bow" will never be for me...

And I'm not about to change how I shoot for a certain type of bow. I grip very loose and don't wrap.  I've had longbows fall right out of my hand because of handshock.

Different strokes I guess... [/b]

The other styles of bows just fit into what comes naturally or how they have been taught through the years to hold and shoot a bow. If the guys at BW or Bob Morrison, Jim Reynolds, or any of the other fine makers of those style bows told you that, hey this is how you have to hold this bow to make it work how many of us would listen and enjoy the bow, and how many would not and deam it a poor design or a piece of crap!

Hill and Schultz told us how to hold the bow to make it work properly but alot of people ignored their teaching and got thumped hard and never got comfortable with the bow. Maybe folks are starting to finally listen and then when you add in modern strings, and the evolved designs of todays Hill bow, they have never shot better!

Spanky

[leatherneck]

Maybe I'm subject to the rule.... Maybe I don't shoot a Hill right.... Maybe I'm just strange   ....    But, I have had the opportunity to test a couple different Hills in the past month or so. I really dont know what people are talking about when it comes to "shock". Yea, it has a little more thump than my Morrison. But to shock out of my hand, no way!
I don't hold it any differently than my Morrison longbow,unless maybe the grip makes me hold it different. I just grab it and shoot. I'm one of the new guys people are referring to about ordering one. Maybe after several months I won't like it. Who knows. But after testing them I really enjoy shooting them.
Shock to me is nothing that bothers anything. The arrow is well on it's way before this shock thing ever occurs. So if that thump bothers you then dont own a Hill(I could name a couple R/D too but I won't). But if it doesn't bother you then the performance of these bows is awesome! My 2cents anyhow.