"Hill" style bows...Why all of sudden?

[LongStick64]

You do have to find the right one, but then again that's true of every bow. I went through a few Hills and now I only have one, a T/D Howard Hill Cheetah I picked up here in the classified ads, at 51@29 and 68" long. She is butter smooth and I love the juniper. That being said most of my shooting is being done using recurves because I do shoot them much better, but when I get in the right mood I go fishing for my longstick.

So find one that works for you and may end up liking them, shoot the wrong one and you'll probably shy away from them. It has a bad rep in my opinion but it also has a large amount of people that love them. Either way there is a good one out there for you, have to find it.

[Wannabe1]

Of the successful hunting archers still living who are among my acquaintance, Wayne G. Stotler, C. Ed Hill, Paul K. Moore, Cy Johnson, Tod Oviatt, Bill Lyon, Ralph Whaley, Harry Stotler, Bob Stotler, Fred Woodley, Austin Bean, Bob Faas, Martin Akmakjian, Guy Madison, and Pinky Madsen, to name a few, are among those who never use any other than a straight-end American semi-longbow

Howard Hill's "Hunting The Hard Way"

Ok, I was going to stay out of this. But, how can one call it a design flaw when looking at the kind of records that Howard Hill set using this style of bow? To say that seems presumptuous and arrogant to me! (And I mean no disrespect or hard feelings toward anyone. To each his own.) But a design flaw? No, I don't think so.    

[SpankyNeal]

The Narrow, deep cored limbs are much more tolerant of imperfect releases and such than other styles. Howard said that he wasn't good enough to shoot a recurved end bow in hunting situations...that should say something! Other bow styles have evolved as well and are much better than in Howards day, but there is still a difference IMHO. Alot of folks do shoot recurves and such better initially because they don't have to worry about bowarm control as much and can concentrate more on aim and release, not so with the lightweight Hill or any small, light riser bow for that matter. From my own personal experience that has been the number one cause of poor consistency...when I keep that under control the nocks start flying!

Spanky

[Ghost Dog]

I have owned every kind of longbow, from hyper r/d "should really be called recurves" longbows to Hill style bows, and I have ended up preferring Hill style longbows or longbows with a tiny bit of r/d. I like the smooth draw of the Hill style, the non-fussy release, the stability, and the elegant, understated look. And as far as speed goes there are only two speeds you need to be concerned with, fast enough or not fast enough.    

See my last post.  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=099233#000000

[Molson]

I agree Curt...  I don't get the " more challenging" comments.  I don't think its more challenging to shoot the Hill bow.  It's just a little different.  I'll tell ya... the Northern Mist does not give up anything in the speed area compared to a lot of bows I have or have had.  To be honest, I was a little concerned about maybe losing penetration because a Hill bow would be slower and I've been shooting about 48# at my draw lately.  That's just nonsense though.

Here's the bottom line...  We could all have a whole lot worse things in life to be spending our money on.  If you spend $500 on a Hill and you don't like it then sell it to someone who will.  Maybe you loose a $100 in the sale but you passed on the joy to someone who saved a $100.  Heck I spend a hundred if I take the family out for a good meal and end up with nothing but a solid flush the next day!

It's all good and its all fun.  The banter back and forth is just folks enjoying their Passion.  These Hill posts have been fun, entertaining, and educational.  A little something outside the norm and just something that's generated a little excitement.  Good stuff!

I've got this old 68" Sauk Trail beat up 68" 61# srtaight limb bow with that funky grip they put on them.   I paid about $100 for it. Every few months I pull it down and shoot it for a few days.  It makes me smile.  That's really all I need to know about that bow!

[tradlongbow]

I've been shooting bows for 20 years, and throughout that time span I have found that the best grip for me is the Hill straight or dished grip. I had a lot of different bowyers make me a R/D bow and even a Radical R/D bow with a stright Hill grip. And even though these bows performed well and in most cases with much more speed then my Hill bows; I just love the simplicity and beauty of a Hill bow.

Also, With any bow,  "There is no excellence with-out great labor." Maurice Thompson

Darren

[BWD]

Originally posted by Molson:


Here's the bottom line...  We could all have a whole lot worse things in life to be spending our money on.  If you spend $500 on a Hill and you don't like it then sell it to someone who will.  Maybe you loose a $100 in the sale but you passed on the joy to someone who saved a $100.  Heck I spend a hundred if I take the family out for a good meal and end up with nothing but a solid flush the next day!

Well stated. I've come to think if I don't loose a $100, in a bow deal, something is wrong.

[frassettor]

I have to admit, the HH threads have got me wondering as well. I always wondered about them.  As what Curt has said..

 " After all I've read, I also see a lot of shooters ending up going back to what they shoot better... and getting away from the "romance"..."

I'm guilty as charged. I ALWAYS end up shooting what I am the comfortable with ( my longbows). Simply because thats what I am most confident with  

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by Guru:
This is spawned from Apex's "She likes heavy arrows" thread...

I've been seing all these "Hill" bow threads lately and have been wondering what changed all of a sudden....they've always had their die hard fans....but the vast majority of what I used to hear was that they'd shake your teeth out your head and a lot of guys had to stop shooting them because of wrist/elbow/shoulder problems from the shock!

 I've tried a couple for one or two shots...that was enough!

So what has changed?

A few things has changed recently:

1) Howard Hill has offered a Limited Edition Robin Hood Bow for 2010/2011.

2) I recently purchased a Hill bow with Carmelized limbs.

3) Several other Tradgangers has purchased Hill bows, with different color limb glass.

4) Hill bows are now offered with no lamination coming up the riser. This exposes the entire riser. Adds to the beauty of the bow

5) Other bowyers have been making some really awesome Hill bows Sunset Hill, Dave Miller, Northern Mist Longbows.

Darren

[Pinelander]

They ARE more challenging to shoot well. There are many more archers who can shoot a recurve better than a longbow, than the other way around. And I suspect that is part of the allure of a straight-limbed, straight-handled longbow. It simply takes more dedication in shooting, to learn how to shoot them well.

[Raging Water]

I used to feel the same way about Recurves. I started with a Longbow and immediately switched to a recurve. Then as I "figured" it all out.      

I switched back to Longbows. I have two recurves (light and heavy draw wieghts) just so I can shoot them in 3 D compititions.

The rest of the time I am shooting my Longbows.

If you asked me to grab a bow off the rack, right now, I would grab a Hill Style longbow, no doubt.

Matt

[Huntschool]

OK... I had a Hill style bow back in the late 60's.  No name on it.  I bought it off some guy in the archery club.  It was 50# @28" and 68" long. Dont remember what it was made of but I paid him $45.00 for it.  

Back then I was shooting a push/pull method kinda like Mr. Bear and the bow shot like a "Haint." There was absolutely no stack at my draw. I could hit running rabbits like crazy.  My wife always tells folks about me killin one on the run out of the garden.

I never noticed any shock... to dumb to know about it I guess but I was "takin holt of it" when I shot.

Fast forward to present...  I shot a H Hill 50# bow about two years ago at a shoot.  I was looking at it and the owner said go and shoot it. He even had me use his "logs" to try it.  I shot it just like I did years ago (fell right into the method like I never quit) and no shock.  Two shots and I had the "picture" adjusted and started laying them in.  

Well, to make a long story shorter, they guy says you should buy this bow cause I can not shoot it that good and frankly I don't like it. I asked why and he started talking...  I said let me show you a few things...  we did grip and push/pull..  In 30 minutes he said the bow was not for sale......

Its all in knowing how to shoot the damn things...  Like several others have said.

I have to admit, all this talk about Hill bows has me itching...  Got a new Widow PL arriving in two weeks.  Afetr that... perhaps I'll just wait for the upcomming "garage sale" on TradGang

JMHO

[paradocs]

I've never shot a Hill; always wanted to, though...just haven't had the opportunity.  Figured since I shoot and prefer very mild R/D bows, I'd probably like Hills also.  Perception and previous experience is a funny thing. I once shot a buddy's 1 piece A&H ACS he was selling...8-9 gr/lb carbon arrow (compared to my usual 12 gr/lb woody).  That thing buzzed my hand something fierce...shot it once, hit what I was aiming at, and handed it back.  Not my cup of tea at all.  But hey, I like redheads, too...

[Raging Water]

I have a 64" 83# at 28" one PC Pronghorn. I have a 66" 85# at 28" Howard Hill Half Breed.

The R/D Pronghorn is definately faster and hits the target like a mule. But, my Half Breed groups are tighter.

Maybe its the arrow, maybe its the length, maybe its the grip, WHATEVER? The end result is, I still grab my HH first. Don't know why. Just do.

Matt

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Guru:
Another thing I don't "get"...

There have been all kinds of claims I've read in the past about these type bow the "most forgiving to shoot", yet a bunch of you here are talking about "more challange"...

the "challenge", if there is one, is adapting to this kinda bow, and seeing if it agrees with you, and vice-versa.  the bow will have a "forgiving feel" about it that only you will understand at that point.  then there's the art of maneuvering that long stick during hunting, as compared to yer shorter sticks.

I know I'm very spoiled by my KS 'curves because to me, compared to them, about every other bow I've ever shot has a "thump".  But some way more than others...

curt, there is no way to compare yer ks to a hill ... just no way at all ... in a very loose comparison, it's like comparing a model t ford to a corvette ... and you know which is which!  if you wanna mess with american flat longbows, it's totally a labor of love and not about a bow that will even come close to the performance of your ks.

After all I've read, I also see  a lot of shooters ending up going back to what they shoot better... and getting away from the "romance"...

absolutely true.  i'll say it again, hill-style is about aesthetics for most folks.    if you want an easier stick bow for yer hunting weapon, it's all about recurves and aggressive r/d hybrid  longbows.

[RLA]

[Raging Water]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by Guru:
Another thing I don't "get"...

 

absolutely true.  i'll say it again, hill-style is about aesthetics for most folks.    if you want an easier stick bow for yer hunting weapon, it's all about recurves and aggressive r/d hybrid  longbows.

[/b]

Rob, if he is talking about a Jack Kempf Kwyk Styk, there is no comparison. One of the two recurves, I own is a Kwyk Styk. That is an amazing bow.

Also, Rob - you and I agree about 99% of the time. However, I would make this slight deviation from what you said - "aesthetics".

For me, I love the way my Hill's shoot. I love the ultra low wrist, the quiet thump of the hand shock, the quietness of the bow, the light weight of the bow, the super smooth draw. I know you love those things too.

So, I think we agree that "aesthetics" of a Hill Style Bow is wonderful but you and I also really enjoy the shooting characteristics of a Hill Style bow.

Yes? No?

Matt

[Wannabe1]

Matt, I to like the shooting characteristics of a Hill bow. They are easier for me to aim and shoot.  

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Raging Water:
 

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by Guru:
Another thing I don't "get"...

 

absolutely true.  i'll say it again, hill-style is about aesthetics for most folks.    if you want an easier stick bow for yer hunting weapon, it's all about recurves and aggressive r/d hybrid  longbows.

[/b]

Rob, if he is talking about a Jack Kempf Kwyk Styk, there is no comparison. One of the two recurves, I own is a Kwyk Styk. That is an amazing bow.

Also, Rob - you and I agree about 99% of the time. However, I would make this slight deviation from what you said - "aesthetics".

For me, I love the way my Hill's shoot. I love the ultra low wrist, the quiet thump of the hand shock, the quietness of the bow, the light weight of the bow, the super smooth draw. I know you love those things too.

So, I think we agree that "aesthetics" of a Hill Style Bow is wonderful but you and I also really enjoy the shooting characteristics of a Hill Style bow.

Yes? No?

Matt [/b]

yeah, curt loves his ks.

all the attributes you speak of are aesthetics.  i use that word in the sense that if you wanted a modern, *performance* stickbow, it wouldn't be a hill-style.

[highnoonhunter]

I haven't read every post, so I may be repeating what someone else said.
but I think the reason for all the Hill style bows and threads is likely compared to the old saying: "What goes around comes around".

I remember when I first got into traditional bows, I had several recurves and my friends did as well. But we all desired a longbow. And at that time, it was just longbow...... not Hill style, just longbow.
So we got one. The as time goes on, we got into takedown recurves, then the metal riser recurve craze and ILF limbs and carbon foam innerds and all that stuff.
But now, after I experienced all the bells and whistles, I'm wanting to just go back to something simple. I am at the point that I just want simple, dependable, and something classic looking. Hard to beat a Hill style bow for those qualities.