"Hill" style bows...Why all of sudden?

[Kevin L.]

Paradocs, where you at in Virginia? You're welcome to come over and try my bows, if you're anywhere near Waynesboro.

Kevin

[Pinelander]

I agree with Highnoonhunter. The recent popularity in Hill style bows is not all that surprising really. With all the new tech stuff available these days, the d-bow resurgence is somewhat reminiscent of the days when folks got tired of the compound bow tech and went back to the old school way of doing it with a recurve. But now they are leaving the recurve world and going back even deeper in our past.

[J. Holden]

I also haven't read every post but went to the "Howard Hill" page here on Trad Gang.  I've also read that a big part of shooting these bows is the "grip".  After watching one of the videos in the "Howard Hill" section the bow seems to jump out of his hand.  It spins and drops right after the shot.  He didn't appear to be gripping it tightly.  So, how is his grip different?  Just curious because I've always liked the looks of these bows but I may need to update my man card before I buy one.

-Jeremy  

[Kevin L.]

Originally posted by highnoonhunter:

But now, after I experienced all the bells and whistles, I'm wanting to just go back to something simple. I am at the point that I just want simple, dependable, and something classic looking. Hard to beat a Hill style bow for those qualities.

Yep, same reason I guide rifle and compound hunters, but when I go out myself, it's an American Flatbow or flintlock smoothbore. I'm in the process of opening a new fly shop and will be selling cutting edge graphite rods, but I fish with bamboo rods made by my own hands.

I ain't looking for the easiest or fastest way, just the way that brings the most satisfaction to my soul.

Kevin

[paradocs]

Hey Kevin-I'm in Disputanta, just east of Petersburg.  You need to hook up with those Cool Springs outlaws in C'ville and come my way to the Dixie monthly shoots....and bring those Hills with ya  

[Follower]

This sudden following verifies man's herd mentality.  You can't deny it really.  You can see within the traditional archery community all the time.  We went from 60-70 lbs bows 15 years ago to 45-55 lbs bows today.  A half a dozen different posts about a certain type of bow and all of a sudden a movement has started.  You see it here all the time.  This Hill bow thing has just grown a little faster and wider than others.  The internet and other technologies have really multiplied this effect in recent years.  The power of pictures and communication that spreads around the world in seconds!

BTW - I like Hill style bows.  I'me shooting the same two I have shot for 15 years or more.

[Kevin L.]

Paradocs, I just may do that. I have to admit, I never heard of the Cool Springs Outlaws. Any more info?

I'll be happy to bring what I have for you to shoot. Two Hills, a couple of Dave Guthrie Appalachians and a Maulding Bighorn Tamarack. I just gave away my Sunset Hill and Underwood to a couple of my buddies that helped me with a kitchen remodel, but I can bring them too, I'm sure.

Kevin

[Cookus]

Come over to the dark side Guru... Release your inhibitions and use the force...     Howard Hill longbows have become a way of life for  me (after I set my Black Widows aside months ago).   I would suspect with all of the discussion as of late (not to mention the technical support... Thanks Rob... we can find here on TradGang concerning these type of bows and how to tinker with them)... Mass exodus is not likely!   Howard Hill longbows on the classifieds are as rare as hen's teeth here lately...   C'mon Guru... You can do it!

I have been shooting Hill style and Hill longbows since the 60s.  I do not get this ya gotta hold it like a tiny bird etc. etc. , you change to your self to fit the bow and on and on.   Look how most need to have that feathery grip on a recurve.  How one needs to have this perfect inline, squeezing the shoulder blades release on most bows, with perfectly balanced fingers or shoot three under so you can sight down the arrow, that most claim they don't see.  How you are suppose to draw nice and straight to your longest possible draw, most claim to be over 28".  I would like to know where guys are getting those 36" arrows from, judging by what is sticking out in front of the bow.  So if a recurve is so sensitive that you cannot just grab it and shoot it, how is that not adopting to the the bow.
  when I shoot I get a deep hold that is tight enough so the bow does not move in my hand.  I have no joints that are locked out or range of motion topped out. I do not think about artificial back tension, if the form is right, the proper muscles are already in play. I do not try to artificially pull my release past my head, some call it follow through, but if it does not happen until the arrow is half way to the target, it is artificial. Shooting this style with this type of a bow is simply the most natural dynamic way to shoot a bow.  will it work with a short hyper recurve that needs to be handled so gently? Nope.  With a longbow with the natural non-exaggerated form one can go out and rip off shots at game that would never be possible with any other shooting method and it can be done with a much heavier bow if one one wants to.  The bow does not make one shoot that way, it allows one to shoot that way.  Timing is everything, a bow that allows natural reflexes to flow is not working against you, it is working for you.  You want to judge a bow by what it does on an already dead target, you will be happier with a target bow.

[paradocs]

Kevin, they're just some guys out in your neck of the woods with the same mindset.  Let's see...do a directory search for Twohats, Nook, A.S., Cool Springer; plus there are some others that may not be on TG.  They're around Charlottesville/Madison; usually a group of 'em come to Dixie every month.  They also get together and shoot at Danny's (Twohats)in Madison on Monday evenings.  They're a hoot....even though they shoot those heavy-risered, ILF-y thingies...  

[Guru]

quote:Originally posted by Raging Water:
I used to feel the same way about Recurves. I started with a Longbow and immediately switched to a recurve. Then as I "figured" it all out.      

I guess because of the grip, "lightness in hand", length, and, to be truthfull...my willingness to work harder at being a good shot...I guess I'll never be a "Hill bow" shooter.

I'll shoot the bow I shoot, because it's the easiest, most fogiving bow I've ever shot. To me that's what it's all about as a hunter.

Guess that's why I've been shooting the same bows for so many years...I'm more into shooting well, than having to work harder at shooting well, or the romance.

By that I mean, I guess I'm not willing to handicap myself, as some of you have put it...

I want to know when the time comes to release an arrow at a critter, I have the best weapon for the job..for me...

I don't shoot much 3d, but when I do I shoot the same bow I shoot when I'm hunting...it's what I'm the best with...

Good stuff fellas    

[Rob DiStefano]

and therein lies the crux of the matter - if yer a bowhunter, there's a certain tool that will probably work best for you and there is no need to look further or farther (or backwards   ).

[Raging Water]

Originally posted by Guru:
 

quote:Originally posted by Raging Water:
I used to feel the same way about Recurves. I started with a Longbow and immediately switched to a recurve. Then as I "figured" it all out.        

Curt,

Around here you can shoot 5 categories of 3 D. Longbows with wood arrows, longbows with other carbon or aluminum, Selfbow, Recurve with wood arrows and Recurve with carbon or aluminum.

So, depending on what category I wish to get my butt kicked, I pick that kind of bow and arrow.

Matt

[ron w]

I have found that you have to grip a Hill style bow differently than bows with a so called locator grip. I guess I would say you have to put more heel of your hand into it....not sure if I'm explaining right. I do like the feel of a straight limb'd longbow like a Hill. They are almost silent and all seem to have good cast.....just fun to shoot. But I also have R/D longbows and recurves and enjoy them all.

When i shoot a recurve, I need to change things to match the pistol grip. If i were to try that same grip and straighter form with a longbow, I would probably just stick with recurves myself.  It is not really so much the bow as it is what the the fluid form allows me to do when I am hunting, especially rabbit and pheasant hunting.  To be honest there are other bows that allow the same form.  One can shoot with nice fluid form with a mild R/D that is not too short.  Even bows like the Shrews and the Lost Creeks with low grips do well with fast shooting. The more pistoled the grip, the straighter the bow arm and wrist tend to get, but that is small stuff and only changes ones reaction times for really fast shots just a little.

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by TSP:
Maybe Hills are more popular because people are learning how to shoot them properly.  Or maybe not.  Holding a Hill like a 'tiny bird' or a cup of minty tea makes alot of tough guys humbler at day's end, lol.  And when that approach doesn't work it's always the bow's fault.  Not really.

Regardless of how magnificent one might be (or think they might be) with their girly bows, Hills will burn the wimp right outta' ya if you don't hold them right.  That's just how it is.  How many times has that been said and ignored.  A great bow with a great history...and a great deal of 'thump' if you ignore the obvious demands of this design.

Get ahold of it and shoot it like it's the opposite of Mommy's target bow.  Bend the bow arm instead of locking it out.  Sooth the beast and it will eat from your hand rather than up your hand and into your shoulder.  Stop wizzing into the wind.  See the light.

Or just shoot your girly bows.

                                 

How many excuses can you make for an obvious design flaw?
If Ford (Chevy/Dodge/GMC... delete as appropriate) made a truck that, by design, pulled sharply to one side, would you say

"That's just how they are. You need to haul like hell on the wheel & lean the opposite way all the time. You just need to drive them how they demand"

Or would you return it to the dealership & tell him it was a pile of badly designed crap? So if you hold a hammer upside down and it accordingly fails to pound nails, it's a badly designed piece of crap I take it?  

By your logic, I guess this guy would certainly conclude that recurves are poor performers and badly designed pieces of crap.

 

[frassettor]

Originally posted by Guru:
I'll shoot the bow I shoot, because it's the easiest, most fogiving bow I've ever shot. To me that's what it's all about as a hunter.

     well said  Curt

[Steve H.]

Some of this "movement" may just be a counter reaction to all the ILF, carbon arrows, tinker-toy broadheads, etc., etc.  That's a good enough reason in MY eyes!

[Rob DiStefano]

i think what goes around, comes around.  next month it'll be 60's style bear recurves.  it's all good.  if yer a bowhunter first and foremost, yer stick bow is the tool that'll bring home the bacon, so choose what'll work best for you.  tired of that whizbang recurve?  feels a bit too easy?  if the aesthetics are good for ya, drop back a notch or two and pick up a hill-style longbow.

If I could the same thing with a Redwing what i can do with my Robertsons and my Schulz longbow I would probably use them all the time.  I do stupid stuff when i try to shoot shorter recurves that I cannot control, but I do have this 52" Ben Pearson that I am determined to shoot a turkey with.  It is kind of cool to be able to sit on a pad against a tree and not have to worry about the bottom limb, but that grip is a challenge to me.