We need more trad. hunting shows on T.V.!!

[LEFTY_ IN_ WV]

Sir I applaud your integrity!!!!
             

[vermonster13]

$50,000 per show

[Arrow4Christ]

I think a TradGang hunting DVD would be awesome!

[8th Dwarf]

You know, after reading all this, I think maybe something really good COULD be done.  Look at Primal Dreams...an AMAZING piece of film work.

In my opinion, what would be good would be to start at the beginning and have several well known traditional archers explain a history of our sport and especially the equipment we use.

One of the most critical views that would HAVE to be expressed would be the difference between hunting and killing and the love and respect for our quarry.  

We need non-hunters to see how deep and all encompasing our sport is.  We need them to see that it is HUNTING...not just shooting and killing.  They need to know the incredible dedication that we all have to the sport of traditional bowhunting.  They need to know that we choose to take the hard way...not the EASY way!

Someone could put together a really classy show, but it would have to be in installments...you can't do what is needed in an hour and a half.

Just some thoughts...

Too Short

[Arwin]

All right 8th! I'm glad your in! I would want a show that could express how we feel about what we do. I can't even put it into words how I feel about it. It's an inward/outward feeling. I am so passionate about traditional hunting that I think about it at least once every hour, every day. Traditional bowhunting and archery isn't something that I do, it's something that I am. If I wasn't allowed to do it, I would wither up and die. It's definitly a feeling from the heart. God made me a bowhunter and I take pride in that.

[Terry Green]

The guys that have emailed me I'm sure are watching this thread.....I had no idea this thread had gone the way it had.

Great ideas gentlemen, keep them coming....ya never know.

[8th Dwarf]

"I'm about 4 doughnuts out of camp..."  That's absolutely hillarious...especially if you know "Biggie".

Too Short

[tim roberts]

I too have to agree with 8th and the others who feel that the hunting shows on TV aren't for the good of hunting.  It is a very rare day that I will watch one.  In fact the last one that I saw was 2 guys in a cement bunker behind a high fence, and more ways to rest the rifle than you could shake a stick at.  All to often these shows, make hunting look easy, and just about the destenation (the kill), very, very rarely is it about the journey.  Gadgets, gizmos, endorsements, and huge antlers, are all that people see when they turn on one of these shows.  As far as the manufactures, TV producers, and the hunters on most of these shows are concerned there is no traditional values in hunting, its just a paycheck, and 15 minutes of fame once a week.
>>>Tim------->

[Arrow4Christ]

Some are bad, some are NOT IMO Easton Bowhunting is not IMO, and neither are several others.

[Arwin]

I hear what your saying Tim. Your considerations are shared with many others. What all of us would truely like to see is a REAL story behind the hunts. No "superstars", no focus on big headgear, with total respect to the animals taken. If you browse through this thread there are some great ideas that could be realized with the support of everyone in here.
 Showing our way of life on t.v., done correctly, could put a respectful view of who we are and what we are about. Longbows, recurves, and the traditional spirit, are the foundations of what bowhunting is today and what it has been for thousands of years. Yet it seems to be put on the back burner and overshadowed by new techno gizmo's, bad ethics, and bad sportsmanship. We need to put our tradition back on top where it belongs. The only way to do that is get it out in the open and share it.
Terry, thanks for your support! I'd like to see you doing what we all love to do too!!!!    

[vermonster13]

That is exactly what I would call a show like I talked about earlier. "A Hunter's Journey"

[Arwin]

It really is a journey that thankfully never ends until we are taken by the Good Lord. Then a whole new one begins!       Good idea for a title.

[Gene Wensel]

I'm not sure we're all even on the same page here. A TV show for the general public and school presentations to influence young minds are two different things. What do we want to accomplish with each or both? Recruit new traditional bowhunters? Are we looking for a TV show about traditional bowhunting or trying to explain why we hunt to non-hunters (and especially youngsters who will someday soon decide the fate of our passion)? The Easton show is not really about traditional bowhunting except for the fact Fred E. packs a recurve bow most of the time and has fun doing it. Fred does a good job. He has good camera presence and provides good footage and excitement in good taste. His show gives a positive image overall. I've never seen Tred Barta's show but he shoots a longbow. I did an expo for L.L. Bean with Tred last September and got to know him. He seemed to me to have his heart in the right place but comes across as too "hungry" to many of his viewers. The host of Taxidermy Trails tv show carrys a longbow too. His show is not real popular from what I can tell, as his episodes are fairly bland but he's still on TV. Gary Morris had one of the first outdoor shows. He used a longbow and presented great footage, music and substance but was cut for who knows what reason. I would be interested in knowing the reason Gary hung it up. Brad Smith did his selfbow thing as part of Gary's shows. I see very few 100% flyfishing shows on TV. Why? Because there is only so much interest compared to wide spectrum fishing by other means. An episode on how to tie an #18 dry fly with an egg sack would draw a very small audience. Most "hunting shows" on the air today require two kills per episode. Why? Because its what the typical viewer wants and/or demands. Sad but true. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the attention and interest span of many viewers has to be satisfied week after week, not just a couple episodes. It would be easy to fall short. Someone told me it takes only 16 minutes of footage to make a half hour show when you add in commercial time. Thats not a whole lot of time to tell and sell a way of life. On the other hand, the 16 minutes of footage has to be top quality footage, taken with quality cameras using good lens, in focus, almost ALWAYS on a tripod with good lighting, sound, etc. too. MOST footage considered worthy would be provided by amateurs who would get their feelings hurt to find their work left on the editing room floor. How many articles do you think magazines turn away for every one published? Feelings are hurt and people get pissed. I personally feel that talking heads for more than a few seconds are a negative on an outdoor TV show. The fewer the better. I'm not so sure the show would even need a host. Sponsors pay the way. $50K is a lot of money per show if that is the correct figure but in all honesty I feel the money and even the music would not be as hard to get as quality footage and material that would make each show special rather than the "Me and Eddie Kill a Couple Bears With Stone Points" type show. As I said, we have to decide who and/or what goal we would be targeting. Getting back to the school presentations, which is an entirely different subject than TV shows, I haven't even set foot in a school in twenty years. Schools used to have "assembly" in their auditoriums with educational films about whatever presented to all students. I don't even know if they do that anymore. Showing something along the lines of a half hour version of Primal Dreams as a part of a hunters safety program is one thing, but there again, we are not getting to ALL the kids. ALL youngsters need to be made (mandatory) to sit down and watch/hear our side of the story. The reason I see it best viewed by 7th and 8th grade levels is that they are mature enough to sit still and listen/watch, yet not old enough to be already brainwashed by the antihunting or "your mother shouldn't be wearing a real fur coat" type views that are more common when they are in high school and "think" they are already adults and are already old enough to vote, etc. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure there are exceptions but they shouldn't be too young nor too old to gain the full impact of "hunting for the right reasons." I'm getting long winded. Enough for now.

[wifishkiller]

Great post Gene!!!! I was wondering if some of you guys that know about camcorders could give use a few ideas what to look for in a camcorder for professional footage.  I've been in the market for a while and there tons of them out there.  Now I know you get what you pay for but I don’t want to be scared to use the thing either lol.  Just a little insight would be great.  I also think that maybe a good way to start this before with even think of a real TV show is just put together a DVD and see what kind of feedback we get?  Anyway that’s just my 2 cents  

[vermonster13]

You wrote a lot of what I have been thinking Gene, thank you for saving me the typing. LOL I think the best forum for this sort of thing would be a documentry set along the lines of a few kids from different backgrounds being introduced to hunting and their journey to and through their first seasons. PBS, Discovery and several other forums could very well be interested in such an effort and personally I would rather get our side out in front of as many non-hunters as possible and perhaps bring a few new hunters into the fold. The folks already doing this have places to go for entertainment.

[Brian Krebs]

Have any of you watched the muzzleloader show- by Jim Shockey? He has a part of each week called 'the big ones'; where he shows old Howard Hill film clips.
 It fills up some time; and most are pretty funny over- anything else; but Howard does shoot a longbow.
  I actually enjoy Shockeys muzzleloader show more than 90% + of bowhunting shows- I don't hunt with a muzzleloader; but the show pictures hunting in a great light.
 I would like to see Fred Bear clips in a traditional bow show. I am not sure of the cost...
 Shockey also does something you don't see very often if at all on other shows- you see his elderly father and father-inlaw hunting.
 While having kids in shows is nice- having two old buzzards battle each other: is probably some of the best footage on any outdoor show.
 And too- for kids to see old guys out there- well I think it is important- real important.
 Kids are encouraged to play football; basketball; baseball; and while they might see middle aged people enjoying softball; a kid cannot see any old people enjoying an outdoor activity - other than fishing.
 I would think a good traditional bow show: would point out how archery can be a lifetime activity.
 And people like me are living proof: that someone with no talent at sports can - with practice enjoy bowhunting...and fulfill a dream.

     

[UKarcher]

Just got back from an early morning shoot in the woods and this thread has moved three pages!
Arwin, cudos to you my friend for pointing out my blooper. Lefty, my apologies to you my friend for not giving you the credit for the idea.
Mr Wensel, you are quite correct in stating that these are two separate issues, but I still think you should get that DVD into the schools. They are just crying out for stuff like that. IMHO. If we only put one youngster on the right road, we have gained two things. One more righteous heart and one less anti-hunter.
Graham

[greenie]

Fred Eichler would be a good guy to ask questions to. He is a recurve shooter at heart but has to use a compound in some shows to satisfy one of his sponsors. I dont believe Tred Barta uses a sponsor. Not sure how that works out but is nice to watch an actual show that doesnt appear as one big infromershal. I dont know if Tred can be contacted but there would be another sorce of info. For something like this to work it would take the right person to take the bull by the horns. Whoever that person is they have some of the most pasionate people around behind them. I also dont think the show really needs some exotic location each week the vast majority of hunters think its neet to enhance there hunting in there own back yard.

[Arwin]

Gene, great to hear from you again!
 I think we could accomplish all of the above. We could take a portion of what is made and use it for the classroom.
 We could also have a show about traditional bowhunting, and explain why we do it in a way that would appeal to non-hunters. I have a gut feeling that this could be realized. It's just putting the pieces together. It sounds like we know what we all want.
 It is true that some of our video sent in wouldn't get shown. There are many of us in here. But that fact, would make each of us strive for great footage and see hunting in a different light. Hunting with a camera has to be a challenge. I've never done it. I know there is a probability that my footage wouldn't get shown, but I would have fun doing it. My objective isn't to see myself on t.v., I want to see traditional bowhunting on t.v.,done in a fashion that is conducive to the tradition.
 I also think that some of the footage that doesn't get aired could be used for a DVD. Someone had mentioned making a DVD to sell for charity. That way the majority of the footage sent in won't be wasted.
 I hope people wouldn't get upset if their footage didn't make it. The traditional spirit is supposed to be selfless and willing to contribute to the greater good. All of us together could make something great.    

[J-dog]

I will first say that I agree whole heartedly with what Paul Brunner has to say, I feel the same hunting should NOT be a spectator sport, and that 99.9% of hunting shows are in bad taste.
I grew up watching those Stoney-Wolf videos and they were awesome, I did learn alot watching them, I can say that the instinctive shooting production by Stoney-Wolf is what got me into trad gear, never looked back. Ha I bought a Schafer Silvertip because that is what I saw in Oct whitetails!!!!!! crazy now that I look back at all of it.

BUT I want to add this point, in this day and age hunting is a multi BILLION dollar "sport", these bad hunting shows are infomercials that sell some insane gadgets(hearing aids for hunting??) or how about "if you use this you WILL kill a ten pointer" yeah OK?? I hate this gadgets(most of them!, I do have a GPS    ) but as long as people buy them I feel hunting is fairly safe.

It is hard for antis to shut down a multi billion dollar sport, they try to do it season by season, and they can do it but what would happen to Bass pro, or Cabelas, and the economy in general, how about the unemployment rate?????? it would take a lick and politicians know it.

Long winded this morning, about the project you guys are talking about, I think you can do anything you set your mind to and are stubborn(check my signature!) enough to see through to the end be it good or bad. Better pay attention to what these guys that have done that kind of stuff though.

GOOD LUCK,

I will help in anyway I can

Jason