Bareshafting carbons w/ Broadheads?

[Tall Paul]

I'm in the process of making the transition from cedar arrows to carbon.  I've been advised to try bareshafting my Wensel Woodsman after I get the shaft flying well with fieldpoints.

Now, everybody understand, I'm not following O.L. Adcocks method.  I'm just watching the shaft in flight(15 yards), and not paying attention to how the shaft sticks in the target.

Any carbon gurus (like Shawn) on here that has experience with this?  Is it worth doing?

[duck'n]

It is my understanding you are NEVER to bareshaft with broadheads.  I am not a senior bowhunter however, so if I am wrong I apologize in advance.  I usually bareshaft tune, then shoot feathers, and the last step is fine tuning with broadheads.  I am sure someone with a little more knowledge than myself will come along and offer more insite.

[Tall Paul]

O.L. Adcock's advice is to never bareshaft with broadheads.  But this is with a carbon that has already been tuned with field points.

The owner of the Trad Shop that told me this, says he does it everyday.  And has it flying like a dart, no problem.  So I know it can be done.

What I'm wondering, is if this is overkill?

[Falk]

NEVER bareshaft a broadheaded arrow - EVER!
Do your bareshafting, by whatever method you like, but do it with fieldpoints, please ...!

[Tall Paul]

I'm aware that it's considered dangerous; I've heard that since I started bowhunting in 1984.

What I'm wondering is if anyone has experience doing this with carbon arrows that have already been tuned with field points.  

Is it even worth doing?

[Vig]

Never tried it with carbons, but allowed myself to act on some misinformation and tried bareshafting cedar and aluminum with broadheads one day.  Not a pretty sight... somewhat entertaining if you run out of other things to do, but pretty scary since the arrow flight is unpredictable.  I told my dad what I tried and he laughed... said I might as well have been shooting my arrows out fletching first.

[razorsharptokill]

Imagine shooting your arrow backwards(fletching on the tip) it's gonna want to do a "U-ee".

[vermonster13]

Exactly what RSK said.

[Shawn Leonard]

Get a your arrow to bareshaft a tad weak with a field point fletch it up and shoot broadheads, the fletch will stiffen it a tad and your arrows with BH's should fly perfect. Shawn

[Dan Worden]

Without sounding too much like a XXXX Do NOT bareshaft with broadheads unless you are very willing to become a Darwin Award recipient. Or willing to kill a neighbor.

A BH on the front will fly exceptionally erratically. After watching me bareshaft one day my neighbor thought he'd try it. He didn't notice I was shooting field tips.

He backed up to 20 yds and cut loose. The fist arrow went about 10-14" high left. The second arrow turned straight up at about 10 yds and he lost sight of it but heard a very loud THUNK three houses down. His arrow was almost straight up and down in the neighbors deck two feet outside the back door. Good thing none of his kids were out on the deck.

It's NOT rumour. Don't do it.

[Naphtali]

Mr. Worden:

Many thanks for answering my question before I asked it. To verify I understand, the reason for not bare-shaft tuning broadheads is their inherent instability requires fletching to [gyroscopically] stabilize them. And this instability occurs with all forms of non-mechanical broadheads.

I leave out mechanical broadheads because they are something I avoid.

[Caddo]

Tall Paul- To answer your question, No it's not worth doing. I would assume that you have gathered from all of the posts above that it's not the smartest thing to do either!

I'd like to know the name of the Trad Shop where the owner does this. Reason being, is to make sure I never, ever stop there or use his services. You may want to do likewise.

LD

[bjk]

Listen to Shawn advice, it is sound...If you do decide to do it, get video...

[doctorbrady]

Tall Paul,

I suspect that you won't have anybody post here that says it's a good idea....and for good reason.  Not only is it inherently dangerous, but it really serves no purpose.  If you can get the bare shaft to fly true with field points, IT IS going to fly well with like weighted broadheads.  There is just no advantage to bareshafting a broadhead tipped arrow.  I would ask the bow shop owner to give you a demonstration.   Then stand waaaaayyyy back.  I suspect you might find that his advice isn't all that it is cracked up to be.

[jonesy]

I would only imagine what would happen if the broadhead tipped bareshaft would do if it plained into the target sideways, glanced off the corner, and did a u turn into your leg.

[Tall Paul]

As I tried to communicate above, but was obviously unable to accomplish, I have been well informed since the 1980's that this might be a little bit dangerous. Thank you all for your sincere warnings.

However, I was curious to see if anyone using this format had any experience doing this, and if it was even worthwhile. Since carbon shafts seem to be rather easy to tune, and lack many of the problems inherent to bareshafting Port Orford Cedar shafts, I wondered if this had been tried.

My purpose was not to defend the idea of bareshafting broadheads, but merely to inquire if it was now something commonly practiced.

[R H Clark]

If you use 190 grn. field points to bare shaft the 150 WW works great.I've done this a lot.The longer length of the WW seems to need a little heavier field tip to compensate for spine.

I have shot the WW bareshaft in my back field,no neighbor for a mile.The WW isn't as likely to windplane crazy like a two blade head.However if you use the 190 field tips there isn't any reason to shoot one bareshaft, accidents can happen.

If you do decide to shoot one Bareshaft MAKE SURE there is NOBODY around but you for a VERY long distance. Like I said before just use the 190 tip.MUCH SAFER.

[Cherokee Scout]

All due respect to those who have added to this topic. I am not trying to argu, just giving my opinion based on substantial experience. If you do not have a save place to bareshaft tune, do not do it, it can be dangerous, especially if your shaft if not correct spine. If you get it right, you can shoot broadkheads on bare shafts from 20 yards. We have done it repeatedly.I for one have bare shafted broadheads many times. I will say that if you have not tried it you might be surprised to find out how bad your shaft is out of spine with the broadhead. Generally, I have found that a shaft spined perfect for a field point will fly weak when using a broadhead of the same weight. With the broadhead, the weight is farther from the nock making the shaft spine weaker (similar to shooting a longer shaft). Most people have to shoot a shaft with a broadhead of about 1/2 -1" shorter than if shooting the same weight field point. I have seen broadheads miss targets by 15 yards when shooting from 15 yards with shafts of improper spine, that is why most people do not do it. It is very dangerous when shafts are too stiff or too weak. When we are tuning for broadheads, we first shoot from only about 10 feet, make shaft spine/length corrections and do it again. We back up a few feet at a time until we have it dead on.
It takes time and patience and a safe place. We have plenty of space so no worry about killing someone. But, the bottom line is if you want a perfect flying shaft, bare shaft tuning is the way to get it right. All of the above response are correct in saying there is danger involved. But just shooting a broadhead can be dangerous if not done correctly. I guess I belive that if we are going to shoot at an animal, we owe it to the animal to do everything possible to get the perfect shot placement. Poorly spined broadhead shafts will "sail" left or right and can cause poor shot placement and wounded animals. We just try our best to get it as right as possible.

[Seeking Trad Deer]

Bearshafting a Broadhead = Russian Roulette

[Dan Worden]

John,

I hate to do this because someone will do something stupid with this info but I like to know how and why things work or don't work.

Since you are an advocate of this. I have a couple questions.

If you've gone to effort to fine tune using the planing method with bareshaft, field tips and BH's out to say 25-30 yds and have them all shooting to the same point. Is there enough benefit to shoot bareshaft with BH's considering the  possibilities?

Have you found some BH typs that just cannot be shot with bareshaft? Say two blade no vent, or 3 blade large diameter, 4 blade?

You can PM the answers if you wish.