Light and fast vs heavy and slow

[bm22]

Sorry to beat a dead horse and start this debate again by i was wondering if my logic is sound. I have heard people say that they get more penetration with a light setup that is faster and prefer it to a heavier slower set-up, my question is it is almost unanomously agreed upon by bird hunters that steel shot does not penetrate nearly as good as lead of the same size and when u switch to steel you have to increase pellet weight and size to get the same knock down power.

Wouldnt this also hold true for arrows, a heavier arrow should penetrate far better than a lighter arrow.. Just food for thought.

[Orion]

Actually, I like heavy and fast.  Your question will never be settled, but based on responses I've gleaned on this site, more folks opt for heavier arrows, i.e., 10-12 gpp. or more.  A few polls that have asked folks what grain arrows they shoot also support this observation, i.e., more people shoot so called heavier arrows than lighter arrows.  Match the arrow and point to the game hunted, make sure the point is sharp, and either works.        

[Stumpkiller]

LOL!  I came to post "heavy and fast" also.

Accurate and sharp are the first two important attributes and fast/slow or heavy/light follow a ways back.

I thought 10-12 gpp was mid-range anymore.  I shoot 630 gr arrows with 125 gr points.  They would look like what guys had in their quivers in 1939.

[Bob B.]

Lead vs steel shot is apples vs oranages, not the same so not terribly compareable ... has to do with the way the transfer of energy is applied as well as molecular cohesion of lead vs steel.

However, heavy vs light arrows are also relative.  I guess it deprends what you are hunting, also the mechanical advantage of your broad head .... always assuming you are getting optimum flight and the head is hunting sharp.

So, as a rule of thumb heavier arrows have more monentum or slug force than light, thus are harder to stop, thus have more penetration.  I guess the medium of the target must be considered.  If no large bones are encountered, an arrow in the mid 400 grains area moving at moderate trad speeds (if placed properly) will get - er done. If larger animals (more mass) and or less than perfect shot placement, heavier is better within reason.

So yes as a rule of thumb, heavier can be better.  Lots of guys here do advocate for at least 10 grains per pound of draw like Orion mentioned.  I love to shoot my bows with around 9 grains per pound of draw because it looks so cool with a real fast arrow.  I hunt around 11 grains per pound of draw however.  It likely is not necessary as I am hunting deer, but I never know if  a hit will be marginal or not, so I hedge my bet with a heavyier arrow and high mechanical advantage 2 blade head.

Bob.

[clayton95]

Hands down a heavier arrow will penetrate better.  Momentum is key. Forget about kinetic energy when you are dealing with penetration. As long as you can put the arrow where it needs to be and it has a sharp broadhead on it heavier is better.  If you mostly hunt deer it doesn't matter so much.  Elk and bigger critters are a different story. In a perfect world heavy and fast is the best. When you are trying to get optimum performance from your setup there is usually a compromise between shootability and weight. I like around 12 gpp of arrow weight to draw weight.

[Shawn Leonard]

I hunt between 8.5 and 9.5 grains per pound and have no problem with penetration. A well tuned set-up is far more important on the game I hunt. I killed 2 deer and a coyote a few years back shooting 42#s and an arrow that was 320 grain so a tad under 8gpp. Passed thru both deer and entered coyotes left ham and came out up to the fletch in front of off shoulder. I agree with Bob B wholeheartedly! Shoot what flies best for you keep the BHs sharp and don' worry about what everyone else is doing, they didn't 50 years ago. I believe today people just make to much of the kinetic energy and momentum and all that. I actually have some Bear arrows from the 60's all with 125 grain razorheads and total weight on all of them is 430-465 and they are spined 55-60 and were shot off a 51# Bear Grizzly, so not quite 9pp. Shawn

[ishoot4thrills]

Bob B. said it better than I ever could have, and with fewer words. I am with him exactly.

[seven crows]

Dito to Bob B.!!!

[Schafer]

One way i like to put it and have heard it compared to is. If you take a tiny car goin 60MPH and a dumptruck at 60MPH which one is going to go thru a brick wall and keep on going after. The dumptruck would as it is bigger and it has alot more momentum behind it then the tiny car.

Schafer

[OS]

I agree I don't know anyway to say it better than Bob B.  But always and questions that inspires the thought process :-)

[Mint]

For me I like the results I am getting with 10 grains per pound with EFOC. With my 55lb palmer recurve i am shootingthrough most hogs and made it into the off side shield of a 230lb boar with a 2" shield.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

I agree with Shawn.

[Zradix]

To accurately answer your question you need to chrono your bow with different weight, well tuned arrows.

Basically you can take the wt of the arrow and multiply it by the speed. Whichever arrow gives you the highest number has the most energy.

This is a really basic explanation. There are other variables to be considered....like how far away the target is.

Most bows seem to hit a sweet spot of efficiency at about 11.3 grns/#.

That being said...A slow heavy arrow will lose energy slower as it travels down the range than a fast light arrow as it travels down the range.

I know you only asked about penetration.

There are many other things to consider of course.
Heavy = quiet = more drop = more compensating...
Lighter = louder = less drop = less compensating....

I love trad archery!

Just get a setup about 10-12 grn/# that shoots straight (tuned) put a sharp blade on it and pick a spot.
   

[Night Wing]

I've shot heavy arrow setups for decades, between 13-15 GPP. This year, I've reversed course and I'm going lighter GPP wise for experimentation purposes which you can see in my signature.

I experimented and shot this morning with a 100 grain point, instead of a my usual 125 grain point weight, for my 37# bow. It worked, but I had to change the brace height to make it work.

[Lost Arra]

I find shooting "lighter" arrows to be louder than shooting "heavier" arrows. I hate loud shooting bows. Until a light arrow is faster than the speed of sound I'll stick with heavier and quieter.
My final weight comes down to how the arrow is flying but I'm usually between 9-12gpp.

If you are shooting deer at reasonable distances it probably doesn't make any difference because either arrow will make two holes if well placed.

Arrows that are too light can be hard on the bow.

[1/4 away]

I prefer heavy and slow. If you take 2 objects of similar size, say a ping pong ball and a golf ball, and throw them into a snow bank at the same speed the heavier golf ball will penetrate farther every time.

[lpcjon2]

I keep it simple- I shoot an 85-90# spine fir shaft with 125-130gr head @ 30-31" and it goes where I want it and when sharp and placed in the hot spot it will do the job. I tried the heavy ,foc,big head stuff and just didn't like it. Back to what has been around for years and has worked for years. I dont weigh myself let alone my arrows. look at gpp as the amount of dirt that gets on the arrow after it passes through the deer and hits the ground.      

[zwickeyman]

It's a proven fact that heavier out penetrates lighter. There is always compremise though, I shoot everything at right around 9 GPP. I like all my bows to shoot right at 190 fps.That way they all have the same point on.

Like others have said, It depends on the animal and distances you will be shooting.If you are hunting Deer from a tree stand and shooting 15 yards max. I would probably shoot 12 GPP. I hunt alot of open country Muledeer and might shoot out to 30-35 yards and like a little flatter arrow so I shoot 9 GPP.

[Shawn Leonard]

Zwickeyman that is not always true, take an arrow that is 9gpp. going 180fps. but it is wagging back and forth when it hits an animal than take a 8gpp. that is flying like a lazer going the same speed, 8gpp. wins for sure. As I said earlier, people worry about it way to much in my opinion. Get your bow and arrow tuned perfect and go kill somethin, whether you shoot 8gpp. or 12gpp. Shawn

[Spookeytooth]

gpp tends to drop at the higher/longer draw weights, so that is not always a good indicator of performance.Im an orangutan,31"@64#
I use the term performance, based on penetration and overall shootability and not so much speed. In my opinion good tuning and FOC weight is paramount.