Light and fast vs heavy and slow

[zwickeyman]

Shawn, that is very true. I just assumed perfect arrow flight from any arrow set up. Perfect arrow flight can be achieved from pretty much any weight arrow:)

[oxnam]

Using your analogy, steel shot kills just fine and I have shot piles of birds proving it. Would lead be better, possibly, but dead is dead.

Now with archery targets at unknown yardages, I think it is easier to be accurate with lighter arrows because of the reduced trajectory. Now we love to talk about the freight train arrows and I really question whether they are actually necessary for animals like deer. But if someone is shooting a light weight bow or less efficient bow, the arrow weight becomes more important.

If a 45# bow with a 450 gr arrow (10gpp) will blow through a deer, why should I shoot a 650 gr arrow from my 65# bow? Why not use the 450 gr and take advantage of the improved speed and trajectory and reduce the vertical margin of error?

I would think 450gr and 650gr are similar to the lead and steel, and like before dead is dead. Now if you start talking bigger animals, then Dr. Ashby's research and heavier arrows become more important.

What I don't understand is if a 50 pound bow with a 500 grain arrow will kill anything in North America, why would so many think shooting 7.7 gpp is unacceptable (500gr 65# bow). It's the same arrow, just going faster translating into even better penetration(let's assume that both are tuned properly).  Something to think about.

[copperhead95]

I used to be really into shooting light and fast arrows, but now prefer much a much heavier setup. They give me alot better penetration and also make my bow shoot smoother and quieter.  

[zwickeyman]

Oxnam, true words.

[Shawn Leonard]

David agreed. I again just feel people are putting way too much thought into all this kinetic energy and momentum. If you look back in old archery books and even magazines you(I won't say never)very rarely even seen it talked about. I just think it makes folks who have not hunted before worry for no reason. As a lot of us know, most of the game we hunt does not need 60 plus pound bows and 650 grain arrows. A lot of deer and even Elk have been killed with 45# bows and arrows from 8-9 gpp. Shawn

[frassettor]

I shoot a 750 gr arrow out of my setups listed below and its what works for me. I see no need to change.

[oxnam]

If you are hunting Deer from a tree stand and shooting 15 yards max. I would probably shoot 12 GPP. I hunt alot of open country Muledeer and might shoot out to 30-35 yards and like a little flatter arrow so I shoot 9 GPP. [/QB]

Exactly.  I am hunting out west also and am more concerned about trajectory than someone that is expecting a 12-17 yard shot.

[Bill Carlsen]

My take on all this since starting in the 50's, is that arrow flight and arrow sharpness are the two lowest denominators is the arrow weight/penetration question. Heavy doesn't mean squat if the arrow is not flying straight or the broadhead is not razor sharp. After that all I can add from my experience is that where the weight is in an arrow has mattered a lot to me. I like a heavy head 200-250 for me and 200 for my wife. She shoots an arrow 100 grains lighter than me and gets as good penetration, even with 3 and 4 blade broadheads and shooting 45# at 26". If the arrow is not flying straight and the broadhead is not extremely sharp it won't matter how heavy or light the arrow or the bow weight is. That's how is has worked for me.

[Shawn Leonard]

Bill, look at your post. Don't you mean arrow flight and broadhead sharpness are the highest denominator, look later in the post you say"If the arrow is not flying straight and the broadhead is not extremely sharp it won't matter how heavy or light the arrow or bow weight is" See what I mean? Agree high foc definitley seems to help, but as I do I shoot fairly light 8-9 gpp. and less on my new ILF set ups but still high FOC. Shawn

[Jesse_83]

I shot the moose in my avatar with a 66# @ 27" Hill style longbow.  I used a 125gn BH and total arrow weight was 600gns.  So about 9.1 gpp.  The arrow was barried up to the feathers with about 7 inches out the far side on a lung shot.  The shot was only 8 yards but I was very happy with the penetration.

[ishoot4thrills]

   :rolleyes:        

And on......and on........and on...........

[FrankM]

As a newbie, I feel compelled by posts here to increase my FOC. Since my arrows are flying real straight now, this thread makes me think I should resist the urge to tinker.

[lpcjon2]

Ishoot,  

[smoke1953]

Relatively speaking we're probably only looking at around a 10% reduction in speed with a 30 to 35% increase in weight over the hunting distances so I like heavy and not so slow. Also the sound and vibration dampening with the heavy arrows with a Hill style bow is nice and full pass throughs on whitetails and a mulie.

[sawtoothscream]

i have arrows that are 560gr, 600gr and 466gr and i like the 600gr arrows the most out of my longbows

[JimB]

Actually,people have been arguing about light arrows versus heavy arrows for a very long time.I was reading the 1943 Ye Sylvan Archer recently and they were talking about the light arrow,heavy arrow controversy the.In that issue was the article by Fred Bear where he tested 6 different bows with 300,400,500,600,700 and 800 gr arrows.In every case,the heavier arrow out-impacted the ones lighter.Fred made a point of saying that the 61# bow with a 500 gr arrow only out-impacted the 45# with a 600 gr arrow by 1%.

He also made a point of saying that there needed to be a balance between arrow weight for penetration and trajectory for being able to hit game at longer ranges,mentioning out to 40 yds.Those were self bow days.People took a lot longer shots at game in those days than most today would think is ethical.

Fred chose 10 grs per pound as the ideal balance between penetration and trajectory.Keep in mind,later,with laminated bows,Fred Bear took shots on game out to 100 yds.

If they were disagreeing then about light arrow,heavy arrow in 1943,and we are still talking about it 68 years later-there will never be a consensus.

Use the combination of arrow weight and speed that suits you and have fun.Probably the majority of bowhunters are shooting small to moderate sized whitetails and most setups with a tuned arrow and sharp broadhead will work fine,so it is a non-issue.Some will hunt bigger,tougher game but I have a feeling common sense will prevail most of the time.

[oxnam]

Originally posted by JimB:

If they were disagreeing then about light arrow,heavy arrow in 1943,and we are still talking about it 68 years later-there will never be a consensus.
 

and I thought we were getting close to a concensus...

[AdamH]

I know, not pertinent here, but I witnessed my Bud shoot a fat 6 pt. in Md. last year with a "screamin" wheelie bow, 30 yard shot, dead on the shoulder goin in tight behind other comin out, Buck stumbled 32 yards, dead in 3-4 seconds, I took that "pass thru" arrow {soda straw size carbon w/85grn. Thunderhead} home and weighed it on my Digital scale ...... 370 Grains, Total ... Obviously, Speed means something ... I know, Apples to Oranges, but it was Pretty Impressive to say the least ...

[AdamH]

As for me and my "Sticks" I shoot heavy, cause the Bow tells me so, not the deer size game I hunt, personally, I think all of this extreme FOC and Extremely heavy arrows is Overated ...

[oxnam]

Originally posted by JimB:
Fred made a point of saying that the 61# bow with a 500 gr arrow only out-impacted the 45# with a 600 gr arrow by 1%.

That is my point about shooting a heavier weight with lighter arrows (interesting to see actual data about it).  Penetration is very slightly better with huge improvements in trajectory for the heavier bow and lighter arrows.  For the country and game I hunt, I'll take the heavier bow.  Which would you pick to shoot 30 yards?

Did it give any indication of the yardages tested or how they measured "impact"?