Next step in bareshafting?

[NBK]

Trying to tune some arrows for my Dwyer Endeavor.  It's 57lbs at 28" and I draw a hair under 29".  Using a SBD 8 strand string.  1/8th" from center cut.  Stu's calculator says that my arrows (Beman 300 ICSbowhunters 100gr. insert, 200gr. point) should be cut to 29".  I started with 30" arrows and they hit where I want them but fly slightly stiff (nock right).  A 31" arrow hits in exactly the same place, but flies a hair weak.  My question is what's the next step?  Should I cut an arrow to 30.5" or start fletching shafts?  Or should I pick either the weak or stiff shaft and shoot broadheads (fletched of course)?  FYI I have some fletched shafts cut 33" and they fly well and hit where I look with fieldpoints.  Regardless none of the arrows are close to the 29" the calculator stated... is this normal?

[Bjorn]

I have mine a bit weak before fletching, the feathers will make them act a bit stiffer when done. So without being there I'd be inclined to go with the 31" shaft if it is grouping with the fletched arrow-see the tuning section at acsbows.com.
A fletched arrow hides a multitude of sins and won't tell you a whole heck of a lot except where it is actually hitting the target. The calculator is a good guide but there are still a number of variables. Side plate thickness, string type and number of strands, shooting style, brace height, real draw length etc. Let us know.

[FrankM]

I'm fairly new to this sport. I just figured out how to bareshaft tune my bow. I'm able to run 145, 175, 200 grains up front on the arrows in my sig. At each adjustable rest setting, I notice that Stu's calc is around 7 lbs. off. All I can attribute it to is my shooting style, brace height, etc. So, I'm going to bareshaft and broadhead tune for now on, and if they don't match Stu's calc exactly, that's ok.

[JRY309]

From my personal experience a 300 spine arrow sounds stiff to me.I prefer to do my own bareshaft tuning,never used a calculator.I find on bows that are not cut to or past center liked my arrows alittle longer.I bought some used carbons that were 1" past my draw length and were showing stiff.So I thought I could add more front end weight to weaken them.Well they got worse the more weight I added.They were bouncing off the riser and not flexing around it.I shoot mainly longbows that are cut 1/8" off center.I feel that there are so many factors.For me I have done my own tuning for many years,I guess I'm just used to doing it myself from my own experience.Carbon arrows recover much faster then other types arrows like wood or aluminum.

[BWD]

My next step is usually a couple of asprins or an extra strength tylenol. lol

[Bowmania]

THe first thing I'd have to ask is are you bare shaft planning or tuning.  I want to know how you came to the conclusion that the shaft is too stiff or weak.  One of the reasons is Beaman 300.  Does 300 mean deflection?  If it does your no where near the ball park.  In fact, the game is in a different ball park.  That park is probably .400 and you could probably get .500 to work, but it would be light.

Bowmania

[maineac]

I have always found Stu's calculator to be off for me.  My arrows always bare shaft tune at least an inch longer than the calculator predicts.

[Bill Carlsen]

Most of the time a properly tuned bare shaft will be a tad weak. Adding fletching gets them where you want them as it has the effect of "stiffening" up the spine.

[Friend]

Fletch shafts at 31" and test with BH's against field points. You may still be too stiff.

My experience shows that the higher you go up in FOC, the less stu's calc correlates.

My 32% set-up is 30#s different than what the calc recommends.

[JimB]

Friend,interesting you should say that.I have found exactly the same thing.On a set that were 21%,Stu was right on.

[NBK]

Bowmania.  I'm bareshaft planning I guess, meaning that I shoot the bareshaft and watch it in flight.  I shoot from 10-20 yards.  For me if the arrow flies point right, nock left that indicates a weak arrow, correct?  I have some 400 shafts cut to 29" and when I put my 300gr (insert + point) up front they fly dang near sideways and I'm lucky if they hit the bag because they're so far to the right of it.  Stus calc said 300 shafts so I think that if I'm not in the ballpark at least I'm at the gate.  
I'm gonna take Bjorn and Bills advice and fletch up the 31" shafts and put some broadheads on them.
On a side note:  In Stus calculator I replaced the string type from 8strand FF (what's on my bow) to 16strand FF and the numbers are right on with what I'm seeing.  Maybe the calculator can't account for string silencers, etc.  Just a thought.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Dynamic spine calculators and spine charts are at best tool to give you a starting point. They should never be used as the final word; tuning is. That being said, I concur with the others who speculated that you're overspined.

[Jeff Strubberg]

My experience has been that bare shaft planing is almost useless.  It's far too easy to make a mistake, especially when you are trying to get the bow out of the way and focus on the arrow flight for that half second before it hits the bag.

Point of impact gives much more reliable results when bare shafting.  If you wnat to fine tune after they all group together, move back to 40 yards or paper tune.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Jeff,

The planing is what causes the point of impact differences. You don't need to see the bare shaft in flight to see if it's leaving the bow nock left, right, high, or low. Its impact relative to the fletched shafts will tell you that.

[NBK]

Thanks for the input guys.  If I believed that I knew more than the rest of you all I wouldn't have posted the question.  I'm going to take a better look at the 400's that I have (still have some full length shafts).  I'll start over with the intent of tuning these weaker spined arrows and only if I can't get them stiff enough will I jump back to the 300's.  Thank you for all the help.

[Shawn Leonard]

I agree with Jason. I give lots of advise and get people pretty close most of the time as long as I have enough info. You give plenty, guys leave out what exact bow it is a lot of time and having played with over 110 customs in the past ten years knowing the bow helps a lot. Even with 300 grains up front I would say those 300s are stiff. Example, I had to shoot a compound due to some issues and a Mathews set at 66# I shot a .300 spine cut to 29"s and shot 225 up front and got bullet holes, so I am pretty darn sure you are over spined. I believe a 30" 400 with at least 250 and most likely a tad more like 275 upfront will get ya darn close. I know I shot a Blacktail for years and it was 63#s at my 28-3/4" draw and I shot a 29.5" carbonwood 4000(.400 spine)with 225 up front and got as near perfect flight as I could and this bow was cut well past center. Let us know how ya make out. Shawn

[SL]

Listen to Shawn.
SL

[2 edges]

I like them a tad bit weak before I fletch.

[NBK]

Thanks Shawn, I read your other post on carbons and spine and was hoping you'd chime in.  This is exactly what I love about trad archery;  proving once again that the more we learn, the less we know! and guys who've been there done that and are eager to help others out.  Sure glad I've built up a wide selection of arrows and didn't give all my 400's away!

[Zradix]

NBK...

I hate to assume...so I'll ask...

Are you shooting right handed?