VENDOR business practices -- WARNING!

[Ric O'Shay]

Many merchants around the world are now claiming they can honor any valid credit card. They do this by using an arrangement with PayPal. The merchant accepts the credit card then uses it with PayPal to collect. PayPal then in turn charges against the credit card. Frequently this is all done without the customer’s knowledge. They only learn of this if they scan through their bill and find a charge by PayPal. It is not necessary for the customer to have an account with PayPal.

As a result, PayPal is collecting what will soon be the world’s largest data bank of credit cards with all the associated information to draw on them at will. Additionally, if the customer has at anytime in the past dealt with PayPal directly or indirectly, PayPal has also added to their data bank the customer’s bank account number with routing information. So, if a  person does business online or by a direct phone call with one of the associated businesses, the transaction will go through PayPal. PayPal will add their percentage profit and charge the customer as they see fit without regard to the method of payment designated by the customer. Research has revealed that PayPal’s internal controls are nominal at best. This is exactly what happened here in Texas a few weeks ago.

In this case, a customer made a purchase on the “big auction” site and gave a Bank of America VISA card number and security code for payment. The seller gave PayPal the VISA card information and PayPal arbitrarily electronically withdrew money from the customer’s Wells Fargo Bank personal checking account that had been dormant for nearly two years with only minimal funds. The bank allowed the charge against the account even though the money was not there. They relied on an old overdraft protection policy and paid PayPal without  first notifying the customer. The customer found out when he was hit with overdraft charges.

I don’t know about your state, but PayPal operates in the State of Texas without having a registered agent upon which legal papers may be served, which leaves the victim with no means to take legal action. The Texas Attorney General and the U.S. Department of Justice have gone on record claiming they are too busy to be bothered by small incidents against common individuals.

It is understandable that some vendors do not want to go to the trouble of setting up accounts with all of the current credit card companies. Since they are already set up with PayPal, it is easier for them to funnel their sales transaction through PayPal. If you are concerned about this situation, it might be advantageous to ask your vendor how your credit card will be charged. Folks, be aware, be concerned and be cautious when you do business involving PayPal.

[Bjorn]

Ric your point may be accurate........my experience has been Paypal is the best thing going since sliced bread. Never a problem in the 10 years I have dealt with them. Yesterday I made a reservation for an apartment in Italy for my daughter any idea how tedious that woulda' been doing a funds transfer? Yecch.

[TommyBoy]

I just closed my account with PayPal after about 6 years or so. They refused to allow any more transactions unless I gave them my bank account number or signed up for one of their credit cards with money down.  I don't give my bank account # to anyone, and I don't need another credit card. PayPal can piss-off.

[Lamey]

Unfortunately until we have a better solution,  paypal is the only real game in town for lots of online merchants, especially ones that do business in other Countries.


Do i like paypal,  no,     Do i use them,  yes,  an unfortunate circumstance in doing online business World wide.

[Converml]

I suppose you just need to be careful and watch them. I know they have come through for me when I made 2 purchases on **** and the vendor canceled their account skipped town with my money. Paypal came good both times with their buyer protection program. Although these were cases where I had a paypal account opened not a vendor using my card through paypal. I guess as with everything it's a double edged sword you need to keep track of.

[WESTBROOK]

I've used PayPal a little with no issues. My wife deals with it daily and has had some "knock-down-drag-outs" with them. PayPal sides with the BUYER right of the bat in any discrepancy, all the buyer has to do is whine to them about something and paypal will jerk the money out of the sellers account in the blink of an eye, then good luck getting it back.

Eric

[David Bartholomew]

Tommyboy,

I too would never give out my personal / family bank account number; however, there is away around that.  Meaning, go to your bank and get an account made up with the only purpose being for use with PayPal. Deposit whatever you think is right for you and use that bank account with / for PayPal transactions.  Don't use you personal account. If someone hacks into your PayPal account... well, they only get what you had in the paypal account and not "everything" in your family account.

[ronp]

I just purchased something online last night ($17.90) from a vendor and I see that I was charged an additional $1 by PayPal.  I was not aware of the extra charge.  I am aware of it now!

[Converml]

As far as bank account #s is concerned if you have a checking account anytime you give a person a check you are giving them your account # and telling them where your bank is. So there is no way to be truly safe unless you only have savings. Vigilance is the best defense without being forced by criminals into isolation.

[kurtbel5]

For me most anyone here can send me a personal check and I will ship when I get it, the amounts are usually small.
I am still having problems,already was in a thread like this over in history, I can't get my money from paypal and am trying to get out.I have given them verified transaction #'s and still can't get the money.

I guess if it works great for you, I would not change either, but once a problem comes up they are about the worst customer service I have ever dealt with, but I was not waiting for a Siegework bow lol

[WESTBROOK]

Oh Yea, they WILL freeze your account so you cant touch your money, if they have the mind to.

Eric

[leatherneck]

I have used paypal for alot of years and have NEVER had an issue with them. Yes, they freeze your account until the issue is resolved. They saved me once when a hacker got into my account and THEY caught it before the hacker got my money. About 10 days later my money was released and I was back in business.
Paypal also protects the seller and buyer. Seller gets his money fast and the buyer gets his product shipped without having to wait till the seller gets his/her money.
 Anyhow,I like them and will continue to use their services.

[Whip]

Originally posted by Converml:
As far as bank account #s is concerned if you have a checking account anytime you give a person a check you are giving them your account # and telling them where your bank is. So there is no way to be truly safe unless you only have savings. Vigilance is the best defense without being forced by criminals into isolation.

That is exactly right.  Same goes for anytime you use a credit card.  You write a check or use your card and hand over your personal information to people every single time you use them.  
No matter how you do business, unless you pay cash for everything you are taking a risk with every transaction.  Your only protection is to check your statements and be vigilant about tracking your accounts.  When I worked in banking we were told that only a small minority of people balance their accounts.  Failure to monitor your own accounts is where the biggest risk lies.

[JRY309]

I haven't had any problems with Paypal,I have a seperate bank account that I use for Paypal only.

I have never had an issue with them either--the convenience of being able to send/accept payments through them is a wonderful thing.

[grouseshooter002]

The thing that bothers me about paypal is that they are owned by E-bay and so E-bay gets a percentage from sales and also from the payment. I sold a bow on  E-bay and by the time the transaction was completed I had been charged $53.00 on a sale of $375.00. I still buy, but don't sell because of the charges. I will still use paypal at times, but not as often as before.

Grouse

[paul11]

I agree with huntryx, add the fact that my paypal account is tied to my credit card, that opens a whole lot of doors for me when that bow you always wanted appears right after you just finished buying one!

Super rich corporate types invest a lot of time and money on looking for ways to squeeze the turnip just a little more. We need to pay attention, to keep them in check.  We have all seen what happens when the protections are taken away like the Glass Steagall act can do to how finance outfits run us around with the default swaps and derivatives.  As things get tighter we will need to get tougher and pay more attention. I found that it is more fun to give away my archery stuff than to sell it on ****. I have gotten real tight on who I give any financial info to, there are weasels everywhere it seems. My new standard is, I need to hand it to the person and make sure it is right for whomever gets it and that my bows and stuff will be needed and properly used.

[JL]

Everything is a trade off. Doing business online requires being able to accept credit card payments and paypal makes that happen pretty easily, at a cost. I learned long ago, there are no free rides when it comes to business. So, keep the fee's in mind when selling/listing to offset what your going to pay to use their service.

I like the idea of a seperate (paypal) banking account to keep things seperate and I'm going to tend to that right now. Thanks for the tip!

Most credit cards have built in fraud protections. You need to keep documents/track of claims/accounts and stay on top of them. I check my accounts daily as I always have a 100 irons in the fire, seems like all the time.

JL

[John Scifres]

And this is trad archery related how?  

I personally love PayPal and think a buyer has the personal responsibility to understand how they are paying for the things they are buying.  If they don't like PayPal, they shouldn't buy from sellers using them.