Hill bow blues!!

[Ratatat]

Well I got myself a new to me Northern Mist Shelton with a straight grip and it is my first "Hill style" bow.  This thing is quiet!!  Pretty fast too.  I just can't seem to shoot it as consistently as my other bows.  I've had it about a month and shot it a good bit.  It just feels so different.  I know everyone is different, but I feel like I should be getting better with it and I'm not.  Oh well I've been stubborn till now no use changin'.  Guess I'll keep shootin' it till I get better.  I'm trying to shoot it three under with a high nock set, and the arrows seem to fly ok.  Anyone else shoot three under with a Hill?  Also, any advice anyone may have would be greatly appriciated.
Thanks in advance.

[JRY309]

Are your arrows tuned to the bow? Depends on how close to center it is cut.I find that my Hill's like a little weaker spine then my other longbows.What weight is the bow and what arrows are you shooting.I find on longbows not cut close to center like most Hill style bows the correct spine and tuned arrow can have alot to do with consistent shooting.This has been my experience,I love my Hill's.

[Walt Francis]

I would suggest reading the Hill thread to gleam some insight, but at over two hundred pages, it might be hard to wade through all the information.  Somewhere in the first twenty pages Rob (the administrator/IT for Tradgang) has some excellent advise/insight regarding how to shoot a Hill style bow compared to R/D’s and recurves; your grip is completely different.

[hvyhitter]

Are you shooting that bow only or going back and forth with another style of bow???.... The way a hill bow sits in my hand I have to pretty much shoot only it to stay consistant.

[Brently]

I only shoot Hill type bows and I shoot 3 under also.  I found that you have to grip the bow and put the handle so that the grip pressure is at the base of your thumb sort of at the base of the web between your thumb and 1st finger. I guess sort of like if you grab a broom handle and grip it, You can't grip it like a recurve or it will be real inconsistent.  There are some sites on how to shoot Hill style bows you might want to check them out as I have a hard time describing how to grip the bow.  Anyway if you decide to stick with this type of bow, once you get the hang of it you won;t want to shoot any other type.

[Steve Clandinin]

Mike,Go to the HH thred like the others have said Nate Steen has a couple of videos on there,one is about gripping the bow real good stuff and helped me alot.That hole thread is a wealth of info.Enjoy!

[Benny Nganabbarru]

I shoot Hills three-under. Two things helped me to shoot them better. I got a longer bow, and got rid of my shorter one. And I started gap shooting - but that helped me shoot all my bows better.

[straitera]

IMO, it is different. There is a learning curve adjusting to the straight grip. One day, you'll shoot all centers when you stop thinking too much. Particularly, do not shoot it like a recurve. Straight grip is a blessing, NM is a beaut too!

[Rob DiStefano]

besides ben, i know rik hinton shoots hill style longbows three under exclusively and has racked up some impressive kills.  
 
all bows and archers are unique to some degree.  all stick bows will work well if you allow them to fit you and not the other way around.  you will hafta do some testing and trialing to make your shelton work its magic best.  hopefully, the bow was tillered for 3fu and not split finger.

and of course your arrows - arrows are far more important than the bow, and hopefully yours are reasonably matched to both your bow and you.  

how you address the bow grip is one major key.  there are more than a few good ways to do this, try them all and find the one that's most consistent for you (not for me or them).  i believe that with any bow type and any bow handle shape, there must be one single pressure point of contact, a "pivot" point.  for most archers, this is between the web of the thumb and forefinger, somewhere on the fleshy pad of the thumb (refer to fred asbell's latest book on advanced instinctive shooting for bowhunters).  the bow is never ever gripped tightly, the thumb and forefinger tips touch and keep the bow from falling out of my hand, there is zero pressure on the palm or fingers.  my bow hand is angled - this allows me to hit the same pressure point consistently and rotates my arm out and away from the bowstring.  i never have a need for an armguard ...

not how i do it (full grip) .......... versus .......... how i do it (single pressure point grip)
             

you want the nock to lightly grip the center serving, never not too tight.  

your nock point height is for arrow up/down porpoising, and your shelf plate distance from center setting and the arrow's spine is for left/right.    

with any manner of string grip, it's the finger that touches the nock that must do the lion's share of holding the draw weight.  with 3fu, the ring finger just goes along for the ride - this is true for all three finger string grips.

the rest will be in your form - how you draw the bow, where and how you anchor, and if you are using your back muscles to constantly "push pull" as you aim and release.  form is literally everything, in the final analysis.

good luck, keep at it - you have a fine bow, now it's up to you to unlock its inherent consistent accuracy.

[Ratatat]

WOW,
   thanks to all who have responded thus far!  The bow is 51# at my 28" draw.  I am shooting 60-65 tapered doug fir, 30" with a 190 point.  If anything the arrows seem a little stiff.  I have only been shooting this bow, my other bow is a glass Centaur with a med grip.  I really like how quiet the NM is.  It's great.  I think the straight grip is what is giving me fits.  I AM going to get consistent with it eventually (hopefully).  
Thanks again,
Mike

[Benny Nganabbarru]

The other thing I forgot to mention is that I do prefer the locator grip Craig offers. It is only slight, but it helps. Also, and this was suggested on the Black Widow forum for shooting their longbows years ago, I wrap my pointer finger around the grip tightly so that it nearly meets-up with, or does contact, my thumb. But the other three lower fingers are positioned so that only their very tips are actually touching the target-side of the grip. This has worked really well for me. I never worry about whether or not I am copying Howard Hill's technique. An archery coach, if he didn't know who he was, would've found fault even with Howard. Archery coaches do that.

[bucksbuouy]

I find a heavier arrow can really reduce the hand shock of Hill style bows and make them more comfortable and lethal!

[TSP]

Lol, you've got a bunch of opinions here on shooting a Hill design (some of them good) but the only opinion that really matters is yours.  Everyone is different and everyone always thinks their way is best (of course it is), but the learning curve can be much easier if you can find someone who shoots a Hill-style well and consistently, then watch how they do it and experiment until you find 'your' style.  The best teacher I can think of is Howard Hill himself or his pupils.  When you want the best then why not seek out the best.

[Northwest_Bowhunter]

Bob Wesley was a friend and student of Howard Hill's and owns Whispering Pines Archery School in NC.

[canopyboy]

Ratatat

Been working through the same issues with my first Hill bow as well.  Stubborness is definitely a factor.  A lot of good stuff if you can make it through the Hill thread.

I find I have to concentrate on my form more than before, but I keep improving.  Funny thing is when I switch back, the work on form with the Hill has only helped with my recurve as well.  (Even with the different hand grip.)

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by canopyboy:
Ratatat

Been working through the same issues with my first Hill bow as well.  Stubborness is definitely a factor.  A lot of good stuff if you can make it through the Hill thread.

I find I have to concentrate on my form more than before, but I keep improving.  Funny thing is when I switch back, the work on form with the Hill has only helped with my recurve as well.  (Even with the different hand grip.)

excepting very radical shaped handles, all handle grips - straight, dished, mild locator, recurve locator - can be gripped very much the same way that works best for you.  some will be more comfortable than others.  the key is to understand how best to distribute/pinpoint the pressure on your bow hand.

[bowbert]

I'm with you, Rob.  I struggled and struggled with D-bows until I cleaned up my "grip". I shoot much like the right hand picture.  Once I did that, everything else feel in line.

Bret

[bowbert]

I'm with you, Rob.  I struggled and struggled with D-bows until I cleaned up my "grip". I shoot much like the right hand picture.  Once I did that, everything else feel in line.

Bret

[Hatrick]

Ratatat,

Besides all the good information you've received on the grip, the arrows you're using would be too stiff. I believe you could easily drop down to a 50# spine range. Maybe even try some 45-50 spine arrows if you have them.

Keep in mind that the Shelton is cut at least 1/8" BEFORE center so you need the weaker spine to compensate. Another thing to consider, using wood shafts with a larger diameter will tend to group more to the left than you may be used to. If you tried a smaller diameter carbon or aluminum you would come back to the right some in your groups. NOT TRYING to get you to switch, just saying.

Also, one more thing to consider, for those who are not used to the extreme light mass weight of the bow, your bow arm may tend to wander more at full draw. When this starts to happen to me I remind myself to be sure to push the bow arm towards the target. This usually straightens out my line immediately.

I have a Shelton with a straight grip myself and really enjoy shooting it. They're a well made bow.

Just some food for thought.