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Author Topic: Canoe or Kayak?  (Read 865 times)

Offline wtpops

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2011, 01:13:00 PM »
I have never been comfortable in a canoe, always felt like I was going to tip over. Now the idea of paddling a slow river to a hunting spot or crossing a small lake to an island sounds like a lot of fun. So for the guy that always grabs the sides of the canoe every time it rocks a little off center, what would be the most stable design out there to wet my appetite and only my appetite.

P.S. I know I need to get out in one and put in some water time to get used to them.
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Offline PaddyMac

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2011, 01:33:00 PM »
I am still waiting for my kayak from Bass Pro Shop, but I have my paddle and pfd. (So technically, I'm up a paddle without a creek...)    :rolleyes:

But just to mention, there is more to stability than the ability of the boat to roll over (width, chine and center of gravity). There's also the function of the paddle. A kayaker uses his paddle for stability. He always has a paddle on both sides of his kayak. A canoer never does. By definition he's only got his paddle on one side at a time and sometimes that can be on the wrong side. A kayaker can keep himself upright in an instant.

That's why I really like the hybrid idea. Big cargo and kayak paddle. But canoe or kayak, rollovers and swampings are gonna happen sometime, so you have to be prepared to deal with it.

About sit in vs. sit on. I anguished over that one, but because I'm going to use it to hunt ducks in slack water in November-ish and some reasonable white water running, I wanted the extra protection. But it was a close call for me. If I were going to use it for bowhunting access like in Hells Canyon or Brownlee Reservoir, the hybrid would be the one and that Native pic-ed above is sweet.

2x on the PFD advice above. I just opened my Redhead Max 4 camo PFD and it is great. A true paddling vest in Advantage camo. But... I am a big large or a small XL and I read the reviews on the BPS site and they warned that they run small and boy howdy. Yeah. I ordered a 3X and it fits great. I live on a kayaking river and I won't go out there without one.

Have fun!   :wavey:
Pat McGann

Southwest Archery Scorpion longbow, 35#
Fleetwood Frontier longbow, 40#
Southwest Archery Scorpion, 45#
Bob Lee Exotic Stickbow, 51#
Bob Lee Signature T/D recurve, 47#
Bob Lee Signature T/D recurve, 55#
Howatt Palomar recurve (69"), 40#

"If you leave archery for one day, it will leave you for 10 days."  --Turkish proverb

Offline RC

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2011, 10:35:00 PM »
I was checking out the "NuCanoe" website and they look awful promising.RC

Offline Dozuki

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2011, 11:00:00 PM »
I have had both and would have to agree withe the canoe.  You can get more gear into it

Offline Michigan Mark

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2011, 11:31:00 PM »
I do not believe your game would fit in a kayak unless small game or fish. Canoe vote for my opinion.
...Mark

Offline Adam Keiper

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2011, 01:14:00 AM »
Hunting from either is certainly an option.  There's lots things to consider.  Do you intend to haul alot of gear, like big tents, full camp kitchen, a treestand, and the like?  That would rule kayaks out.  However, I don't think packing deer out with a kayak is out of the question.  Arctic natives hunted seals and tied them to skin float bags to tow them back.  If a deer wouldn't fit in a larger kayak, I don't doubt that it could still be towed this way if that was the only thing holding you back from a kayak.  

A loose guideline to remember is that longer/narrower boats feel more "tippy" and don't turn as easily, but are easier and more efficient to paddle.  Short and wide boats tend to be the opposite.  So, do you plan on paddling small creeks and ponds or big open water?  Will you be travelling upstream for any distance?  Small waters lend themselves better to short, manueverable boats, while bigger waters or any significant upstream paddles will do better with something long and sleek.  If you'll be on big open water, consider something "seaworthy" and that you are certain you can self rescue if you tip over.  A sit-on-top kayak is the easiest to re-enter.  Just climb back aboard.  A canoe may be the most difficult to right, get back in, and bail out.  In any case, make sure your boat has adequate flotation, with secured foam, sealed bulkheads, inflatable float bags, or a redundant combo thereof.  (As a heads up, be aware that most of the recreational sit-in kayaks (especially the cheaper ones) have no sealed bulkheads, and need float bags to be safe if you're farther from shore than you can swim.)

Also, do you consider a boat simply a means to a hunting end, and/or with your only desire to have rudimentary paddling skills to get from A to B?  Or do you want to learn advanced skills and get more performance out of a boat along the way?  Just how "stable" of a boat are you looking for?  How agile are you?  Do you want room to move around or would you prefer to feel locked in?

Also, how are you going to carry a boat?  Trailer, roof rack, truck bed?  You're limited to short boats if you're planning on throwing them in the truck bed.  Weight is a concern, too.  Hefting a 65#+ boat on/off a roof rack and up/down to the launch site gets old fast after you've done it solo a few times.  Also, where are you going to store a boat?  Do you have room for anything long?

Your final decision may largely be like a longbow vs. recurve thing.  In most cases, I think either would do the job, and the decision boils down to more of what you want from the boat while actually paddling it.  I'm more of a kayak guy, favoring performance and ease of paddling.  I paddle at least weekly and don't think I ever go out that I don't go at least a mile upriver, and often two.  Sometimes three or four, and usually to hunt or fish.  I personally don't find a kayak difficult to shoot out of, except straight down at fish.  Here's my current favorite, an 18' x 22" wide Greenland kayak that I've even been paddling up small trout streams to fish.

   

Offline Dave Lay

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2011, 09:28:00 PM »
i have never been in a kayak other than a white water boat, i am sure the larger ones are pretty stable and can haul some gear, i have a 16 ft blue hole canoe (royalex) that has hauled a few deer out, i just dont know how ya could do that with a kayak. I am currently looking at a 14 1/2 ft old town which isnt the white water boat the old blue hole is but is lighter and has a decent capacticy and seems to track well will be used for solo fishing and hunting creeks and calmer rivers around here. but for tandem use or bigger water i really like the 16 ft blue hole. i dont actually hunt from the boats but use them to transport to hunting areas and back
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Offline COLongbow

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2011, 11:19:00 PM »
Great thread. I've done both. Lived out of a canoe for 3 weeks on the Kenai Peninsula in AK, sported around in a kayak.

Kayaks are definitely easier to paddle, but don't expect to pack much more gear than is possible in a small back pack.

Definitely obtain a good open canoe and learn how to paddle it. Dead deer? Canoe.
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Offline Dave Bowers

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2011, 12:01:00 PM »
In this day and age...you can find yourself a sit on top yak the can hold alot of weight. I have a 09 native manta ray and it'll carry 450lbs. So I went with a kayak for my hunting and fishing adventures.

Offline Apex Predator

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2011, 12:23:00 PM »
I bought this one to fish and hunt out of.  It's a Malibu Stealth 14 and can haul 550#.  Plenty of large hatches/dry storage.  It's not as fast as I needed for an offshore fishing boat, so I traded it for two more yaks.

 

 

I traded it for a Wilderness Systems Tarpon 160i, which is a perfect offshore boat, and a Native Watercraft Ultimate 14.5.  Here is the Tarpon.

 

 

Here is the Ultimate 14.5, that I plan to hunt out of this year.  She is easy to paddle, plenty fast, and hauls 450#.  She is the one on the right, and is more of a canoe than kayak.

 

 

 
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Offline COLongbow

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2011, 04:33:00 PM »
Now that Ultimate is the best of both worlds!

Super nice!
BW PCH III
 

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Offline JockC

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2011, 05:54:00 PM »
I've spent a lot of time in both.  You can push either category with specialized designs and add-ons, but for working boat simplicity and flexibility I just couldn't imagine ever being without a good river canoe.  Add flotation bags and paddling skills and you can handle some tough water...Furthermore, in many areas you have to worry about blood scent and bears.  I would far rather clean blood out of a canoe than a kayak.  Fishing is more of a trade-off game, but unless you're prowling coastal islands canoes have it for hunting.

Watch the dogs, though.  People die in overturned canoes pretty regularly with dogs jumping in and out.  I wound up buying a clamp-on stabilizer years ago because of a young son and a younger lab.

And don't forget small 12-14' aluminum skiffs with a 10 or 25 HP.  Very, very useful...Now that I'm thinking about it, every man needs several small boats!  You can get by handily with one bow, but water comes in a lot of sizes and velocities...
Jock
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Hunting should be hard.

Offline DannyBows

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2011, 06:42:00 PM »
I have two inflatables, a 1 seater and a 2 seater, made by Sevylor for West marine. It's called the Colorado. I haven't hunted out of them yet, but if I can find a place I wouldn't hesitate. They have a very tough outer shell that allows you to inflate them very rigid.

 One summer I lived on my sailboat on a Mooring, and had to row back and forth to the Dock. I used the 2 seater with the forward seat removed, and I loaded that puppy with a couple hundred pounds of stuff on a regular basis, as I had to take my deep-cycle batteries ashore for charging. It's very stable, being basically a canoe. It paddles well, and it even has a fitting for hanging a 12V trolling motor if you want.

You can stand in it, it packs down to the size of a large backpack, and it won't break the bank. If I was going to haul a lot of gear, such as a camp/hunt trip, I'd tow the 1 seater behind with gear. Here's a couple of links, one has a good video of one.

 http://www.inflatablekayakworld.com/reviews/sevylor-colorado-inflatable-canoe/

 http://www.inflatablekayakworld.com/reviews/sevylor-colorado-inflatable-canoe/
"Always feel the wind, and walk just like the leaves".  ("LongBow Country"--Chad Slagle, "High, Wild, and Free").

Offline Canyon

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2011, 10:01:00 AM »
I appreciate all the information being posted here as I have been pondering the same question. The comments regarding wearing a PFD cannot be overstated. It is the same as being in a treestand without a harness in my book, do it for your family. To drive it home....the survivors had PFD's

 www.paysonroundup.com/news/2011/jun/01/man-drowns-trying-help-others-willow-spring-lake/
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight;nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety;is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free,unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Offline woodworker

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2011, 06:32:00 PM »
For my two cents, it will again be the adirondack guide boat fast to row, light and is the pick-up truck of the adirondack mountain lakes and rivers.  Now that I (and family too) am finally out in south east Wyoming I hope to use the cedar one I brought with me.  But as most have stated it all depends on what type of hunting and how much you are bringing.  Hook up with some one who has the same interest and have at it.  Good luck, have fun wear, your vest and be safe

Offline iron_llama

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2011, 01:33:00 PM »
Why not go with the best of both worlds and get a solo canoe?  I've got an Old Town Pack (12') that I bought as a back-country fishing boat.  I've put my bow in the boat a few times during deer season but never saw anything to shoot at.  I use a kayak paddle and treat it like a kayak, but I can load it down with camping / fishing / hunting supplies and be on my way.  

Another option that looks really interesting is a Wave Walk kayak.  Scott Johnson from Minnesota uses his for traditional bowhunting  http://www.wavewalk.com/Kayak_Review_10.html  

I don't know Scott and I don't have anything to do with Wave Walk, I just thought it looked interesting.

Offline Three Arrows

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2011, 07:26:00 PM »
The Folbots are excellent kayaks for price, packability,and use for hunting and fishing. Mokais are another fine alternative for those who don't like to paddle.  http://www.mokai.com/index.html

Offline PaddyMac

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2011, 07:39:00 PM »
I just got off the Methow River yesterday in my Bass Pro Shops Ascend 12.5' fishing kayak, which I got mainly for duck hunting and lake fishing.

Maiden voyage in white water. The river is still pretty high, about 1,200 cfs and we went through the gentle section which has some 3 and 4 foot rollers. Wet ride. The full length keel was kind of dicey trying to keep out of the sweepers. Any bigger water and I think I'd pitch pole (endo) it.

It's great on slow rivers and lakes, tho. Will hold a boned out mule deer and a head and cape, easy.

Cascade toys and guns sells a ghillie suit for kayaks and I'll match that up with a shorty guillie jacket and become pond scum.

The Ascend 12.5 is definitely more lake yak than river, and it's really good at that. It has a tunnel mid-boat that makes it like a catamaran, very stable without being slow. I was with three people in whitewater inflatables and I had a really hard time not running them over.

Whitewater? Not so much.
Pat McGann

Southwest Archery Scorpion longbow, 35#
Fleetwood Frontier longbow, 40#
Southwest Archery Scorpion, 45#
Bob Lee Exotic Stickbow, 51#
Bob Lee Signature T/D recurve, 47#
Bob Lee Signature T/D recurve, 55#
Howatt Palomar recurve (69"), 40#

"If you leave archery for one day, it will leave you for 10 days."  --Turkish proverb

Offline BRITTMAN

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2011, 08:27:00 PM »
I use a boat called creek boats , its a hybrid canoe and kayak so check them out  www.creekboats.com  

Mike
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Offline BRITTMAN

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Re: Canoe or Kayak?
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2011, 08:29:00 PM »
BTW you can get them with trolling motor package or with out . I got it with out and use a kayak paddle with it .

Mike
" Live long and prosper "

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