3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)  (Read 778 times)

Offline snakebit40

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1848
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2011, 06:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BoonRoto:
Brad, of the options you presented,

"hunt the week where the Last Quarter is at 9:10 A.M on Nov 18th"

that would be my choice.

Lots of big boys are out looking again after they lost their does. Movement as a whole won't be as high as the first week of November but the big boys are really moving during that period.
:thumbsup:  spot on
Jon Richards

Isaiah 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”.
>>>>------------>
Schafer Silvertip 71@28
Big River 60" 59@28

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28640
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2011, 06:14:00 PM »
Geeezz....I read the tittle....and not the question.

I didn't realize you were picking a week....I need to slow down....we'll, can't till the auction is over!    :biglaugh:
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Mojostick

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1364
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2011, 06:36:00 PM »
Stumpkiller,

You asked "when is peak rut".

There is no concrete answer because regions are different. The farther south you go, the later it gets. The amount of sunlight per day is the reason and not temps. In the north, the days get short in late October.

From speaking to MDNR biologists for my area of Michigan, they told me that a doe's estrogen level peaks around Halloween/first week of November and so does a buck's sperm count.

For my area, the majority of the fawn drop the following spring is the key to understanding when the "peak" breeding occurs.

Whitetails have roughly a 200 day gestation period and the survival mechanism is that most fawns will be dropped within a short 2 week period.

Think of the rut as a big bell curve, with the top of the curve being "peak". But there's still activity occuring on the edges. Plus, the rut is more than just breeding itself. There's the seek phase, when you start to see the first scrapes, then the chase phase when you see bucks all stoked up literally chasing doe's. The actual breeding part can bring deer sightings to a crash because when a doe is ready to breed, she doesn't go far and often multiple bucks will stick on her like glue. That's known as "lockdown".

If you've ever had a season where everyone was seeing bucks chasing everywhere for like a week, then all of a sudden it's like they disappeared, that's lockdown. That's different than stand burnout, because all of your neighbors will suddenly report the same thing.

A few years back, we had a hard shutoff like that at my property. For the first 3 days of November we saw like 25 different bucks chasing and at all hours. But then on Nov. 4, it was like all the deer disappeared. Nobody saw another deer for a few days and conditions were perfect. That's a major lockdown, and unusual in it's magnitude, in my opinion. Usually it's more subtle.

At least in the north, what hunters typically think of the rut is always from around October 20 thru mid-November. The reason is, the amount of sunlight in the day is constant year to year, which is the driver of the breeding season and the majority of the fawns must be dropped in May or early June at the latest.

What many call the "late rut" in the north is most often when some female fawns come into estrus for the first time.

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28640
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2011, 06:59:00 PM »
This is a great thread....

""A few years back, we had a hard shutoff like that at my property. For the first 3 days of November we saw like 25 different bucks chasing and at all hours. But then on Nov. 4, it was like all the deer disappeared. Nobody saw another deer for a few days and conditions were perfect. That's a major lockdown, and unusual in it's magnitude, in my opinion. Usually it's more subtle.""

This is when I throw them a curve ball...I don't hunt the food....or the open woods...or even the edges...I cheat into the thicket boarders into the bedding areas.  

These areas may or may not be available on the property you are hunting....if they are, this is the time to ease into the bedding area on the down wind side and get in about 50 or 60 yards.

These areas are best found during the off season when you can bump deer but not 'run them off' hopefully...and scout the inside boarders of the thickets/bedding areas for forage and perimeter trails and have a stand or two picked out only for the 'lock down' time...OR, during those extremely windy days deer don't feel comfortable in the big woods feeding.

Just make sure you don't over hunt these areas...and if you have multiple areas like this don't hunt the same place twice once you've been made, and have a route pruned so you don't leave scent coming or going.

The deer in these areas feel REAL comfortable cause they are rarely disturbed there, and its best to keep it that way when all possible.  But! These rare hunt scenarios are priceless as the deer seem to think they are all safe and sound and there body language is the laxed you might ever see.
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Don Stokes

  • Tradbowhunter
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *
  • Posts: 2607
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2011, 07:54:00 PM »
Here in my part of north Mississippi, the biologists say the rut peaks in mid-December on the average, but the bucks seem to be most active from late November to mid-December. That's when you're most likely to see a mature buck during daylight.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Ben Franklin

Offline Mojostick

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1364
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2011, 08:08:00 PM »
Just wondering, since the reduction in daylight isn't as sharp in the south, is the rut a little more drawn out and subtle down there?

Or can it be short and intense too?

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28640
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2011, 08:25:00 PM »
Mojo...funny you should say that.

Here's what I've found over the years...

Yes...the rut is wild n wooly in November...here in N GA most of the chasing is the last two weeks of November...sometimes the 2nd and 3rd week.  The last weekend in Oct is a GREAT weekend to hunt as the bucks are 'bird dogging' sent trails and they seem 'dumb as a box of rocks' walking and trotting along with their nose to the ground.  I've had them bought bump into me during that pre-rut phase.

However, there seems to have been a change over the last 5 years.  Still wild n wooly in Nov....but stronger Dec ruts and the evolution of January ruts.

Use to be the horns fell off the bucks in early Jan....now bucks are still toting racks in March...and tiny fawns being seen during the season.....not just the beginning, but in the later part of the season...meaning they were born July / August.
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2011, 08:35:00 PM »
the difference in hunting right before the first does come in and right after is that the big boys corral those first does and out into the open lands they go, not coming into the creek bottoms until a day or two later after romancing that lady one on one

I like to watch the weather too and this fall I think maybe I can actually adjust my vacation if a really lat October cold snap is forecasted etc

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2011, 11:19:00 PM »
I will very likely hunt Nov 5-12 based on moon and time of normal rut .... if its super warm forecast I might push it a week later as well or super cold foirecast, a week earlier?

 

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28640
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2011, 11:23:00 PM »
Brad...I hear ya...but I think you should worry more about 'where' you hunt the property...and 'when' you hunt during the day(all day if not sure)...than what dates.

Take the moon and 'roll with it'.

Just my 2 cents.

Can't wait to hear your stories when you are back.

   :campfire:
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
My all bamboo Zipper this year Terry - I'll have a semi-live thread as always, maybe better photo's and video too because this year its got to be 150" or better for me to shoot - that leaves a lot of camera time on the 125-150" bucks I might see !

Nov 5-12 is my target if the weatehr forecast isn't 80 degrees every day ! If it is, I'll push it to a Nov 13-20 type hunt I imagine

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28640
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2011, 09:07:00 PM »
Best of luck Sir!!!    :campfire:
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Online Ryan Rothhaar

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2011, 10:32:00 PM »
I didn't read all the responses, but here's my take, for what its worth (maybe not much!).

I've watched whitetails and paid attention to the moon for a while and, frankly, I think intensity of the rut YOU SEE is 90%+ weather and less than 10% moon phase - the timing doesn't change much at all.  When I say the rut YOU SEE I mean just this - in the Midwest the does get bred about the same time every year, the weather dictates how much of that happens in the daytime (when YOU SEE it) - the fawns will still be born in the spring whether you see a rut or not.  The better (colder) the weather the more daytime activity, the warmer the less - simple.

I take the 1st 2 weeks of November off to hunt deer every year.  If I draw a tag for Dad's place in Iowa I go out there the 1st week of November - in a place with more competition by mature bucks I want to hunt this pre-rut or beginning of the "following period" time - end of the active chase phase (mostly younger bucks chasing hard).  The last 3 bucks I killed out there were in 1st week Nov, all following does and only 1 was approaching the "standing over" breeding activity.  Once they get into that situation they have a habit of disappearing somewhere with her for 2-3 days (in other words, chances are you ain't gonna kill him).

Here at home (Indiana) I like the 2nd week of November since we do not have NEAR the competition for does by mature bucks and it seems the "following" phase is carried out by young deer, like the active chasing part, then the older ones move in and pick up the does when breeding is imminent.  I take my chances on either catching them together before they sneak off to the bedroom, or cautiously hunting the bedroom.  I don't get busted in bedding areas nearly as much here as you would in a place with a high deer population.

Short story - if I had only one week to hunt deer in the Midwest I'd plan on the first week of November, regardless of the moon....deer see in the dark anyways!!    ;)  

Ryan

Offline b.glass

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 3098
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2011, 06:06:00 AM »
I'm not as experienced as many here but I believe there is something to the moon position. More acitvity when the moon is overhead or under foot. When the moon is overhead during daylight hours you see more deer.
B.Glass, aka Mom, aka Longbowwoman
Gregory R. Glass Feb. 14th, 1989-April 1st, 2007; Forever 18.
TGMM Family of The Bow
Mark 5:36 "Don't be afraid, just believe".

Offline Mojostick

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1364
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2011, 09:24:00 AM »
Regardless of what dates you plan in advance, murphy's law is always floating around out there.

Recall last season in the upper Midwest. Remember the "big blow" we had in late October? The one that had 30-50mph winds and lasted for like 4 days?
The one that happened on the very 4 days I planned months in advance so I could hunt every one of those days, all day?

Yeah, that big wind storm. LOL

Like John Lennon said. "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
mojostick - give me high winds and cold vs warm and calm ANY DAY

this year I should have the flexibility to adjust my hunt in Kansas based on weather - if they're calling for a super cold snap late Oct, I might jump and go, if its warm/warm the last week of Oct, first week of Nov I'll delay and wait until that cold does hit


that's the plan and again, thanks for the advice guys

Offline Cootling

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 387
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2011, 11:43:00 PM »
I study such things for a living (how one draws reliable conclusions from observations of wildlife) and I'm with Bowwild and Ryan Rothhaar.  I don't think the moon makes enough difference to be detectable in context with other influences.

Offline Gary Logsdon

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1657
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2011, 01:05:00 AM »
Who truly knows how moon phases may inhibit or accelerate overall deer movement during peak rut in my state (KY) . . . with the modern firearms season scheduled the second and third weeks of November there's often so much havoc that, well, I'm sure you get the point. Nothing like an army of weekend warriors running the backroads and trails on ATVs to get the big bucks moving . . . the ones that are left anyway.  I wonder how many are prematurely plucked from the herds before they have a  chance to spred their genes.  Ahh, QDM at it's best:^(
Gary Logsdon

Offline Mojostick

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1364
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2011, 10:53:00 AM »
Here's an article worth the read...

vhttp://www.huntingnet.com/staticpages/staticpage_detail.aspx?id=144

Moon Phases and Deer

Many people hold the belief that moon phases are responsible for many important things talk to police officers or delivery room nurses. They will tell you people commit more crimes and high numbers of babies are born when the moon is full. Ask many hunters and they will tell you the same thing, but relate the moon phases to hunting deer. Deers' activities are tied in with lunar cycles, and as a hunter, this knowledge will come in handy. Deer will feed at certain times, move around at other times, use specific trails at distinct times. If the phase of the moon is noted, the next time that phase occurs, you will be sure to see the deer in the same place or doing the same thing. Knowing that deer will do activities because the moon is in a certain configuration, helps you tailor your movements or hunting schedules around that. For some people, getting used to the idea may be hard, because some people regard things like these as myths. But if you really stop and think about it, it does ring true. Most deer sightings occur during certain phases of the moon. Mark down the phase whenever you see deer, and you will convert your thinking into what every successful hunter already knows.

Activity Cycles

The real secret to understanding the Moon's effect on Earth's inhabitants is the fact that all living organisms great and small exhibit alternating cycles of rest and activity. These, in turn, are directly related to the Sun or Moon, or both.

For example, humans have a circadian rhythm - we wake shortly after the sun rises, and we fall asleep after sundown. Nobody has to teach us this. Our bodies respond to changing light levels by producing the hormone melatonin that causes us to become drowsy and fall asleep. On the other hand, bats, owls and some species of snakes are nocturnal - they're on an after-dark activity schedule.

And what about deer? The unique makeup of their light-gathering eyes and their weird four-part stomachs suggest they're neither circadian nor nocturnal. Some biologists classify whitetail deer as "crepuscular," or low-light creatures, but this is only partially true. Some nights herds of deer can be seen frolicking in fields, some nights they're nowhere to be found. Likewise sometimes deer are active during the day, and sometimes they're not. What gives? If you know where to look, you will notice a subtle rhythm to whitetail patterns involving the Moon. And this is what makes deer fairly predictable.

Deer And The Moon

It's important to note what happens when an organism gets out of its God-ordained rhythm: In a word, trouble. For instance, research from Harvard University involving 122,000 registered nurses dating back to 1976 revealed the perils of "shift work." Women who worked rotating shifts for six years or more experienced a 50 percent higher risk of heart disease.

Deer are no different. With its four-chambered stomach, a deer is designed to feed quickly to minimize exposure to predation, then retreat for security cover to "chew its cud." Deer must feed rhythmically or the microorganisms living in the first chamber of their stomach, the rumen, will die. Without these microbes deer won't last long, because they won't be able to digest woody fibers and food matter high in cellulose. So deer, like other species on the planet, feed on a regular schedule. Again, this schedule literally rotates around the Moon.

Each day, the Moon rises and travels across the sky above the horizon just like the sun, peaking at its midpoint before beginning to set. But unlike the sun the Moon rises a little later each day - about 51 minutes, on average. This makes tracking the Moon's comings and goings difficult and is largely responsible for keeping hunters in the dark over the years.

But that's been changing. Hunting-only lunar charts conveniently convert the Moon's overhead and underfoot positions into times of day. This is helpful information because the Moon's "overhead" position (and 12 1/2 hours later its "underfoot" position) coincide with predictable feeding times each day. Anglers have long used this lunar lore successfully, and now hunters are finding similar correlations.

How do we know this is fact and not folklore? Texas Tech University biologist Steve Demarais and whitetail management consultant Bob Zaiglin radio-collared 25 trophy bucks and monitored them from 1985 through 1987 in South Texas. The pair's extensive background enabled them to interpret and express their data in hunter-friendly terms, first published in the September 1991 issue of Buckmasters. Many insights were gleaned but one particularly stands out: Deer movements were most pronounced during the traditional hunting hours of dawn and dusk "when there was a 1/4 to 3/4 Moon." Further, the Moonless and Full Moon phases seemed to "break this pattern down."

The key variable here is Moon position: Quarter-Moons peak overhead (and underfoot) during low-light periods of sunset and sunrise. Coincidentally, bucks use the reduced light as cover and are more comfortable with their surroundings during early and late "Moon times" associated with these phases. This observation is substantiated with harvest data: Most deer registered at check stations throughout the nation are harvested during favorable morning and evening "Moon times." On the other hand, very few bucks are taken during Full Moons, largely because the Moon is directly underfoot during midday - a time when hunters are progammed into thinking they won't see many deer.

Putting It All Together

This may seem complicated but the implications are very simple. Many factors contribute to when and where deer will be active, but none are predictable ... except for the Moon. In other words, you can't count on temperature, wind, precipitation, hunting pressure (or lack of it) on any given day afield, but you can always count on the Moon to beam its coded message at predictable times. So before you head out, first find out when the Moon is overhead and when it's underfoot. Then concentrate your efforts in appropriate places at those special times.

Briefly, you can intercept a deer in one of three locations: Where it beds, where it feeds, and the in-between zone of travel corridors connecting the two. Once you know when the moon peaks, you can constuct a sound game plan to put you in the right place. After all, being in the wrong place at the right time isn't any better than being in the wrong place at the wrong time! For this reason, be especially sensitive to early morning and late afternoon "Moon times" that allow you to hunt food sources, since they're a lot easier to identify than bedding areas. Which is the main difficulty of midday "Moon times": Deer will be bedded down when the Moon's urge to "get up to feed" hits, and they won't venture far from security cover to feed. Moreover, if you attempt to set up near a field edge for an afternoon hunt, few deer will make before dark during this phase (remember, the next Moon time is at least several hours away).

The more we learn about the Moon, the more we learn there's so much more to learn. Just recently, for example, we've compiled data that allows us to predict whitetail rutting dates. Naturally, the intervening variable that causes the rut to fall early some years and late others is - you guessed it - the Moon. No wonder the Moon has fired man's imagination over the centuries. Underestimating its profound influence is like looking through the telescope from the wrong end.

Offline awbowman

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3719
Re: do you believe in Moon Phase? (planning what week to hunt Kansas)
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2011, 11:04:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:
Mojo...funny you should say that.

Here's what I've found over the years...

Yes...the rut is wild n wooly in November...here in N GA most of the chasing is the last two weeks of November...sometimes the 2nd and 3rd week.  The last weekend in Oct is a GREAT weekend to hunt as the bucks are 'bird dogging' sent trails and they seem 'dumb as a box of rocks' walking and trotting along with their nose to the ground.  I've had them bought bump into me during that pre-rut phase.

However, there seems to have been a change over the last 5 years.  Still wild n wooly in Nov....but stronger Dec ruts and the evolution of January ruts.

Use to be the horns fell off the bucks in early Jan....now bucks are still toting racks in March...and tiny fawns being seen during the season.....not just the beginning, but in the later part of the season...meaning they were born July / August.
I hunt in central Louisiana and we are seeing the same thing Terry.  When I started hunting, Thanksgiving weekend was THE weekend to go to deer camp.  The past few years it is getting later and later.  So late in fact that in our area, we are forbidden to take does until after October 15th (our archery season opens Oct 1st).  The main purpose is to give a few more weeks of time to the fawn.  In fact, on our lease, we have fawns on camera with spots into November, so we always wait for several minutes to make sure the does do not have young ones in tow even after Oct. 15th.

We now see the main chasing at the end of our archery season which is mid to late February with a lot of the breeding taking place outside the hunting season.
62" Super D, 47#s @ 25-1/2"
58" TS Mag, 53#s @ 26"
56" Bighorn, 46#s @ 26.5"

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©