58#@28 Widow SA and Beman ICS Bowhunter 340's

[Nathan Killen]

Do you think it will be too stiff ? I just ordered a dozen and now im second guessing my self. Im planning on around 29" BOP and 50 grn insert and 200 grn point. Thoughts ?

[awbowman]

If you are drawing 28" I don't think it will be stiff at all.  In fact you may have to go with a 175 grain head and 50 grain insert to stay 29".

You should be able to make them work by either cutting thiem shorter or lessening the head weight

[Montanawidower]

May be stiff in my opinion.  The 400's would be my guess with that set up.  (I shoot vertially the same specs with a 58# PLV)  Recurves are a bit different, so who's to say?

[schlaggerman]

I shoot Beman ICS 340s out of my 55lb. Black Widow. I draw 28 1/4 inches. I shoot a 150gr. broadhead with a standard insert and a 20 gr. nock insert; the arrows are cut to 29 3/4 inches. They bareshaft perfectly.

[Jacob Mortensen]

stu miller dynamic spine calculator gives you the best match with ICS´s BOP:29 Spine:340 Insert:50 BH:175

[xtrema312]

If you are drawings 28” I think you will be fine, but I would have more point weights and 100 gr. inserts available to tune. You may not use them in the end, but it is good to have them to try before you cut.  That can help eliminate mistakes.  Do a lot of testing and cut down slowly.  I didn't find I needed as much dynamic spine as listed in Stu's calculator.  I was shooting a PSA about 55 @ 29 ½” with a 30” GT 5575 and I think about 225 total point and insert weight.  Anything stiffer and my bare shaft was flying stiff.  I had the same thing with a PCH recently.     I have shot the bowhunter 400 and 340’s with a pile of weight on the front from these bows.  The bowhunter  is not a very heavy shaft so you want some point weight on them.  Don’t be afraid to use 100 inserts, 200 point and build out a little if needed.   Note that some widows have the flat strike plate and others have the bump under the strike plate.  That makes a difference.  I am not sure what Stu’s has in his calculator.

[L82HUNT]

I shoot easton axis 340's cut at 28.5" with a 100 grain brass insert and 175 Grain head.  PSA 60@28 draw 27.5" bareshafts great flies awesome.  Weighs in just shy of 600 grains

[BlkDog]

I would recommend 400's.  I am shooting a 57# Silvertip and a 57# Shawnee Dakota with ICS 400's cut 30.25" with 325 gr on the front.

340's will be stiff.  You will need stay long and probably need more weight up front.

[wihill]

Sounds identical to my SA - I'm shooting 400's @29" with standard insert and 200gr tips.

   

[riverrat 2]

I shot .340's out of my old 55# TF3. pulled 28,arrows at 29",.145 up frt. they shot flat and
far.

[stevewills]

i shoot a pma 2 59@29 and shoot the 340s with 220 muzzy phantoms up front and have no issues..i think i cut them at 30 inches;;;;

[Bonebuster]

Just play around with the tip weight...they should fly great for you.

I didn`t read all the responses yet, but if no one else mentioned it, don`t go cutting them to the exact length you want right at the start.

Two people can shoot the same bow, drawing it to the same draw weight and length, and require two different spine arrows. With my set-ups, I have always found I must shoot an arrow much more stiff than any chart ever indicated.

Good luck, and post back up how it works out for you if you would.

[Friend]

Nathan - Please provide some feedback to let us know how you made out.

[Bill Carlsen]

Perfect...at least for me, it works great.

[jhg]

Bare shafting for my new longbow I am closing in on the right shafts and it looks like its going to be 400's if just over 9grn per pound.

60#'s @ 30", center cut,  FF skinny with about 550grn cut to 30-3/4"  
When I get new 340 shafts I can make them work too and shoot a heavier arrow for elk.

A couple of observations regarding spine/weight sensitivity. I can see a difference at 15 yards between 20 grains of weight up front. An ICS shaft will show weak or move over to stiff with adding subtracting very little weight.

 So its very easy to miss that golden combination of wt vs length vs spine. I know when I have hit it when my accuracy improves by about 50%. It makes a huge difference for me to be right on tuning spine.

 I plan to work on my 340's tomorrow but so far they have shown the same tendency. Its very easy to over or under correct and miss the target weight/length that is perfect. I think that is why some get frustrated with bare shafting carbons.

Joshua, not an expert.

[jhg]

ttt

[NBK]

For reference.  I'm tuning my Dwyer Endeavor cut 1/8th from center, 63# @ 29.25" draw, FF 8 strand SBD string.  200gr. points, 100 gr. inserts ICS 400's cut to 30" are flying weak and hitting right of fletched shafts at 20 yards.  I'm thinking of moving up to the 340's.  Stu's calc said to use the 300's, but they were too stiff.  Just FYI.

[jhg]

Here is what I have so far bare shafting out of my 62" longbow, 60#'s @ 30", cut  to center, skinny string.

If ICS Bowhunter 400's and I want to shoot my 235 grn tip its a shaft cut to 30.25 inches for a total of 526-530grns. Perfect flight both bare shaft and fletched. [20grn insert, 235grn tip, 6.4grn footing, 10grns 5" 3 fletch)

If ICS Bowhunter 340's, right now I am at 31.50" long but with a 260grn tip for a total of 630grns. Perfect flight both. [50grn insert, 260grn tip, 6.4grn footing, 10grn 5" 3 fletch]

1) I don't want a 630 grn hunting arrow. So I next need to find the correct shaft length for my 235grn tips. Or build out my window a little, or both.

For those interested, these are my experiences finding the right combo using ICS Bowhunter shafts.
I have seen lots of weird results using carbon shafts- showing false weak or stiff. You need to figure out a way to confirm if its a true reading for a given length/weight combo before you decide to accept what you are seeing. I found it very easy to think a too stiff shaft was really a little weak or perfect just by following the bare shafting guide,  thinking well, the arrows are grouping right and low etc... Accept that as truth via confirmation, by shooting a heavier or lighter tip.

Stay tuned.;0)

Joshua

Edit: Today I tested again and to use my 235 grn tip it cames out to a 32-3/8ths shaft for about a 622 grn hunting arrow. I also changed my side plate out a small amount. This combo may change slightly, but this is very close to perfect. To bring it down to 600, the weight I am hung up on... ;0) I need to do some more work

Here is the break down: nocks-9.8, footings-6.4, BH w/adapter-235, insert-50, feathers-10, shaft-311 (32.25 x 9.3)

Hope this helps someone.