knocking point & getting arrow touches on your shelf

[TDHunter]

When you boys are talking about knocking point at 5/8's of an inch.ARE you using a bow square and then going 5/8's up from were the bow square touches your bow?

I 've been doing some tuning and it appears I'm getting arrows touching the outside of my shelf. When I look at a knocked arrow I'd never think they would touch out there?

[daveycrockett]

Yep, from where the square just touches the shelf, I put the bottom of my nock point at 5/8th's or whatever I require on a bow.

[huskyarcher]

I usually just eyeballit, and test, then adjust. But then again im no where near the shot some of these folks are on here!

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by daveycrockett:
Yep, from where the square just touches the shelf, I put the bottom of my nock point at 5/8th's or whatever I require on a bow.

Me too. I always use a bow square. I can't eyeball since my arrows are 22/64" in diameter.

[TDHunter]

I put some tape just off my velco arrow rest(on shelf) and I'm getting arrow touches off the left of my rest....   is that stiff ...weak I can't figure it out.   when I shoot through paper it's tail high but If the tail is taking a slight bounce of the outside of the self it's no wonder it always shows high no matter what arrow I shoot.

[TDHunter]

?

[LONGSTYKES]

Good bow square, works well for nocking point and brace height as well.

[daveycrockett]

Could be stiff or low knock or you putting pressure on the nock with draw hand? Add a little point weight and play with nock point and see what happens. One of my favorite bows requires a 3/4 high nock.

[statedriller]

I fought that problem and solved part of it by raising my nock point.  Solved the other half by videoing myself and finding that I was putting down pressure on the arrow when I hit my anchor.

[TDHunter]

I'll try it all!

[JimB]

TD,it can also be a form issue.Make sure it is not too stiff an arrow but check form also.Too high an elbow on your drawing arm can cause top finger pressure down on the nock.That can cause the arrow to bounce off the edge of the shelf.

Increasing point weight can tell you if the arrow is too stiff.Don't be afraid to get ridiculous with point weight.If the problem persists,it is a form issue.

[hvyhitter]

TD, how are your arrows flying? Are your broadheads hitting with your field points out to 30 yds? I get the same wear on any recurve I shoot and have great arrow flight (and thats with the big snuffers). I've been shooting the same arrow combo on one for almost 10 years and another for 4 now. Shelf wear is the last thing I worry about when shooting or tuning a new bow or arrow combo. If your arrows are doing the hippity dippity in flight thats a different story........YMMV

[SS Snuffer]

Try shooting cock feather in. Works for me!

[xtrema312]

Make sure your arrow is not sliding down the string.  Test that by trying to slide it down when the arrow is on the string.  I have to have a second knocking point under my arrow.  Do you shoot split finger or 3 under?  If 3 under, play with your nock point, and arrow spine.  If you shoot split read on.

This same thing has driven me crazy for some time.  I have had great flying arrows even broadhead, but had issues and sometimes it would get ugly, and I couldn’t figure out why this would come and go.  I heard all the stiff arrow and low nock point stuff, but it was not the case for me.  There are a lot of other causes I believe.  Form is my big one, but I also found issues with too weak an arrow.  Then there is grip, and how that changes limb timing.  I found too stiff an arrow didn’t bounce off my shelf unless I was stiff and low.  Stiff shafts for me just bare shaft stiff and don’t bounce off.  I even set nock height up to ¾” or a little more at times and still had the issue.  

Here is what I think is often the problem.  Shooting off the shelf is not that easy.          

Too much finger pressure on the arrow will flex it before and on release.  This adds to the vertical flex.  However, I think the pressure and flex of the shaft is just part of the problem in that situation.  You are also getting vertical and possibly horizontal torque on the string. I think that is changing limb timing as well as causing horizontal string movement different than standard movement on release.  All this cause all kinds of nock travel movement issues as the arrow takes off.  

A little stiff and a little low on the nock works better for me at times because I think I get less flex and the flex is up on takeoff vs. down with a real high nock set.  Just a guess really, but I think it makes sense.

Grip can change limb timing by changing the load in the limbs.  Grip pressure too low and you pull more bottom limb on the draw.  Now the bottom limb is moving at a different rate and distance than the top limb.  Real high nock point also cause you to be pulling higher on the string causing different limb load.  Shooting 3 under causes different limb load and a higher nock point requirement because the bottom limb will move the nock point down at the end of the stroke.  

The most frustrating thing for me was that I often seemed to have it solved for a time and then it started again.  Mostly I think this was due to getting things just right so the timing of the arrow flex would miss the rest.  Then a little change to the draw length, finger on the string, grip or something else would cause a change in the nock travel and arrow flex.  Then I would get the hits again.  You can have things really screwed up and get great arrow flight, but you better do all the screwed up things exactly the same every time, because there is no room for any change or any forgiveness when you operate this way.

The oddest thing at one time for me was that I never have this problem shooting 3 under.  I also noticed a different draw length 3 under.  In time I noticed a different bow angle and pull angle when I switched back and forth.  For some reason I pull different split finger.   3 under I tend to shoot a more vertical bow and pull more down and back.  Split I tend to turn my string hand some and pull more up.  My string hand follow through was even different.  I think this is caused from my anchor some.  Also the finger over the arrow nock and split in the fingers changing hand tension some for me.  I have to work and keeping my hand relaxed and not pulling too much with my bottom fingers when shooting split.  Now shooting split I try to pull the elbow around more level.  I also try to really let the bow hang loose in the hand to feel and see how the bow turns so I can detect torque on the string or off angle drawing.  Now I shoot most of the time without issues.  This was the primary culprit I think along with being out of the right range at times with nock set and arrow spine.  I finally shot 3 under until I was sure my arrow spine was correct and my bare shaft shooting high.  Then I knew I should be very close on tune shooting split finger.  Then I worked on figuring out what I was doing wrong in my draw and release.  Once I got that I greatly reduced my issues.

It is still possible to get the occasional rub because all it takes is to be off a little here or there and you can get a little touch, but it should be light and not consistent. Shooting off a shelf really well and clean all the time is not easy.
   

[TDHunter]

I shoot split and all this sounds familiar!!!  frustrating. I'm getting half decent flight now, but I just can't get the bullet holes I want and it drives me nuts

[TDHunter]

I shoot split and all this sounds familiar!!!  frustrating. I'm getting half decent flight now, but I just can't get the bullet holes I want and it drives me nuts

I'll try some groups with points and broad heads

[Gitnadoix]

Must be the bow TDHunter.....I will take it off your hands and solve your delema

[elknutz]

I was thinking the same thing.  If its that 62" 58lb Moab giving you problems, send it down to Oregon. They shoot better the farther south you get.  I don't shoot split so I've got nothing of value beyond what you've already received. Good luck.

[cahaba]

May be pinching the nock. Open your fingers up a touch and see if that works. Good shootin

[xtrema312]

Real good holes in paper are harder for me split that 3 under.  I can tune a bow easy to shoot bullet holes from 6-8’ and on out shooting 3 under.  Split I often have a little variation or wobble in the arrow until I get out about 20’.  It just seems it is harder to get off the string as clean each shot shooting split.  Back tension, relaxed hand, and proper follow through are critical for good holes.  I can do it, but I really have to have it all together each shot to get the good holes once tuned.  However, my broadheads and bare shaft shoots well.  

What is your draw process?  Do you swing draw or draw with a raised bow?  I know that I have way less problems drawings in line with a raised bow.  The higher the better even above line of sight to start. This really helps me get my string arm pulling correctly.  It keeps my hand and arm looser, and I get my back tension more consistent without using other shoulder muscles.  This helps me not torque things so much, pull more in line and get a better relaxed hand release.  I also find a vertical bow makes a big difference, but I like to cant my long bows some so I really have to watch things to make sure I keep things all lined up and muscle use correct.