Your Elk Bow

[Dave2old]

Steve -- sorry if my enthusiasm for my views sounded combative. Not meant that way at all. And you made a good catch on the sandwich-banquet analogy, a slightly mixed-up metaphor I guess. What I was trying to say or imply is that when we get into a good elk situation (the banquet), and considering the various costs to get there, it's a shame to risk blowing this golden opportunity because we're not properly equipped for the challenge (the sandwich). I am not a believer in heavy bows. Nor am I a believer in using too little bow. I am a believer in heavy arrows for heavy game. My beliefs are based on having done most everything wrong myself, tried every shortcut, at one time or another, and often more than once. I learned the hard, slow way, with no mentors, and am trying to save others that grief. I'll try to be more clear and less clever in future! thanks, dave

[Charlie Lamb]

Martin.... long time no see!!  

[Charlie Lamb]

Here's a few of my thoughts on the subject.

1. Shoot as much weight as you can accurately.
(you don't have to be able to shoot it all day long...just one time real good!)

2. The lighter the weight of your bow the more critical the weight of the arrow becomes. Don't go overboard... 10-12gr. per pound of draw is plenty.

3. If you just can't shoot over fifty pounds with an efficient bow, pay particular attention to broadhead design... long and narrow makes up for a lot of pounds.

[Paul J.]

68#'s @ 28" with 650 grain wood arrows!! Worked
well in the past and it will in the future.

                             Paul

[Orion]

My elk medicine this year is a 60# longbow, 650 grain wood arrows with two-blade heads, though I may still build some heavier arrows, around 700-725 grains.

[BLACK WOLF]

I'm using a 67 lbs. at 29" DAS Master shooting 530g. arrows. I got a complete pass through as if my arrow was a hot knife going through butter through the heart and both lungs on my last bull. Couldn't even find the arrow. I was using a STOS broadhead.

Shoot as heavy a bow as you can comfortably and accurately in just about any condition...which includes heavy breathing and out of breath  

Ray  

[xia_emperor]

Dave2old, Charlie Lamb Thanks! great info. I just love to ask questions, and boy did I get one answered this time.  

[Voodoofire1]

My goal is to make an Elk hunt in the next three years,God willing, and I'll be taking this.. 76@30.. 600gr. footed axis,and big snuffer heads.
 

[coaltroll]

63# long bow, 720 grain ash arrows with 160 gr STOS 2 blade broadheads. Put a 5 point down last year in about 20 yards. I was able to sit down where I shot and watch him breath his last. But then he was only about 5 to 6 ft away.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by xia_emperor:
well what does it take to punch throuth an elk rib? KE (kenatic energy) I am more interasted in facts then personel feelings.

When i listed my 2 cents worth above, my opinion was based on experience with harvesting elk with a bow.....we've hung 37 elk on our meat pole over the last 16 years, and i've seen with my own eyes what happens when an arrow hits the rib cage....the age old dispute or debate of speed vs weight, and kinetic energy is still alive, and always will be i'm affraid... the "Facts" are hard to pin down as each shot placement and angle is different....the broad head plays a big part too.

the heavy arrow with a 2 blade broad head approach for traditional archers has proven very effective at short range..... as it should be... those broadheads are designed to slip between those ribs or split cartlage and small bones....

there isn't a bow out there that will penitrate a shoulder blade of an elk....i would highly recomend passing up a head on shot through those front ribs too....

the bottom line is you arrow dosn't have to have the power to break ribs...but your harvest rate will be much higher if you can.....how much KE does it take to break an elk rib? Hang a piece of 3/4 inch 7 lam plywood from a saw horse so it swings back and forth. if you can penitrate that plywood, you can break elk ribs. a stationary piece of plywood with a back stop dosen't simulate the give an actual rib cage has....

we did a broadhead test one year. i had a rib cage of a good sized bull elk i boned out in the field. we flopped the hide back over the rib cage and shot different stlyes of 3 blade heads into it....most of these were chisel head design....hands down...the 2 blade out performed the 3 blade when hitting a rib squarely. the 2 blade would actually split the rib, where the 3 blade with a chisel tip had more of a tendance to break the rib......we were all shooting compound bows in excess of 65 lbs though....

i have no experience with light weight bows at all...all i can say is if your set up is under 55-60 pounds.....let the force be with you, and only take quartering away shots less than 20 yards.....prayinmg a lot might help too....

[xia_emperor]

so you are say that I should shoot a bow that I can't shoot well, and gives me the best chance of making a poor shot, over a bow that will allow me to make the best shot? so if I can only shoot a 50 lbs bow well enought to hunt with, then I can't hunt Elk? seems to me that 5 lbs bifference between 50 and 55 lbs should not warent a prayer. but if I am over bowed I think I should be making all sorts of prayers.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by xia_emperor:
so you are say that I should shoot a bow that I can't shoot well, and gives me the best chance of making a poor shot, over a bow that will allow me to make the best shot? so if I can only shoot a 50 lbs bow well enought to hunt with, then I can't hunt Elk? seems to me that 5 lbs bifference between 50 and 55 lbs should not warent a prayer. but if I am over bowed I think I should be making all sorts of prayers.

Charlie hit it right on the head....use the heaviest bow you can shoot comfortably....with lower poundage bows you need to have a good quartering away shot with a razor edge broadhead, preferably a two blade....you have better odds of getting into the engine room bro.......i don't know about you my friend, but i say a prayer with every arrow i loose at any animal.....is it nessisary? i like to think so...and it certainlly don't hurt.....a lot of folks give thanks before supper....i start a little early myself....

as far as 5 pounds difference in weigh on your bow goes, you could easily match the two with a lighter arrow weight & faster speed with equal KE.....but you'll find guys lining up to argue about that.....

lower poundage needs lower shots....those ribs taper out. i shoot the lower third of the elk myself....get a hole in the bottom and they leak alot more too....i'm going to try tree standing shooting an elk this year myself....

i wasn't sugesting you over bow yourself...But i would pick your shots carefully....50 pounds will do the job, but your odds are much higher with a heavier bow....Nuff Said

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by xia_emperor:
same here, WOW! I think 50Lbs is more then enough and makes the shoot easier as well .

It's not.... by industry standards anyway...

"Industry experts recommend at least 55 pounds of kinetic energy for the larger heads and 65 pounds of kinetic energy when going after elk and large game. The 65 pounds of kinetic energy translates roughly into the result achieved by launching a 400-500 grain arrow with a 60-65 pound compound bow, but you can use this formula to know exactly what you are producing with your particular set up."

velocity squared X speed , divided bt 540240

a 500 grain arrow going 200 fps is only 44.420 ponds of KE.....

[xia_emperor]

then I would rather shoot a compound bow. Least I won't struggle with the shot, or blow my shoulder out. but thanks for the info.

[Diamond Paul]

I just ordered a new recurve from Wes Wallace, and I based my poundage choice on his advice: 50lbs @ 28".  He says that he hunts elk with a fifty pound recurve and has no problems whatsoever with penetration.  If I could shoot 70lbs easily, I would, because common sense tells us that more energy is never wasted, but very, very few people I have seen can shoot traditional bows over 60lbs well, and that certainly includes me.  If you shoot a 50lb bow with fairly heavy arrows and two blade heads, I doubt you'll have any problems if you make a good shot.  Good luck, Paul.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, I'm under bowed for elk?  55#28" 520gr, arrows,  185fps,  39+ pounds of KE.????  I don't think so.

[xia_emperor]

I have a 60lbs longbow and with my 550 grain arrow I am only getting 175 +-, so then I would  need to shoot a heaver bow, or heaver Arrow. But, as my Arrow wieght increases my arrow speed drops.

Right now From 175 fps with a 550 gr arrow = 37.41KE
if I went to 650gr arrow I would say I would drop to at least 160 fps = 36.96KE So now I am getting a little less KE.

I have not check the speed of my 50 lbs Longbow so I will check and fill that in later.
but maybe if I shot a recurve then I could make up the speed with and then get a Higher KE score.

but if my 50 lbs long bow get 160 fps with 550 grain arrow = 31.27 KE
if I shot a 650 grain arrow at 150 fps = 32.48 KE I gain KE.

[xia_emperor]

I own a 60, 50, and 45 lbs longbows.

[MW]

Xia,

I think you could go crazy trying to work this out.  There are so many variables to consider.

What I have heard on this thread and others makes a lot of sense.

Use a very sharp broadhead.  Make a good shot.  Shot within yourself. (distance)  You will have a dead elk.

That said I have spent the last couple of hours weighing and testing arrows.  I happen to like to hunt with a bow that has a 74# draw the arrows that it likes right now are carbons 32 with 5 inch feathers and about 12 inches for drip line irrigation tube stuffed inside the front behind a 13 grain insert with a 100 grain insert.  The total weight is 545 grains with an foc of 14.5.  The kinetic energy with this arrow is 53.35.

All that said, two hours latter all I really know is my son now knows how to work a scale and if I make a good shot on and elk he will die but if I don't he may not.

I think I better put the scale away and go outside and shoot!

[Plumbob]

All that said, two hours latter all I really know is my son now knows how to work a scale and if I make a good shot on and elk he will die but if I don't he may not.

Priceless