sitka clothing! is it hooplaa?

[swampthing]

Also have a couple of questions.
    What if you fall in water out in the wilderness with sitka gear on? Does it keep it's "thermal" properties then?? What happens if you get a hot coal from the fire on it? will it just melt through or will it go up and melt on you? hows the odor retention, and is it whisper quiet when you move?

[Kevin Dill]

I have had KOM and Sleeping Indian wool in full sets. Worn them for caribou, moose, deer and some other use. I thought nothing could ever beat them. I loved them for being quiet, warm and very traditional. I forgave them for accumulating smoke odors and food smells. I forgave them for being very heavy when wet. I forgave them for being hard to vent, and harder to carry in a daypack. I forgave them for grabbing burrs. I forgave them for being somewhat of a pita to clean nicely. I also forgave them for being pretty darned poor at blocking wind on cold days.

I bought Sitka and other synthetics about 3 years ago. I noticed my wool got almost NO USE after that. The synthetics stay cleaner for me. They have less odor to my nose. They layer up better, and they pack tighter. They dry faster. They have less bulk when worn. They vent much faster and easier. They stretch better than wool. They are 10x better than wool...in my playbook....for active hunting. For stationary whitetail treestanding, with low exertion, I'll be wearing whatever feels best that day. I'll go with more bulk in cold temps. I can stay very warm and comfy with $350 worth of good fluffy fleece/etc. I can't figure out how using $800 - $1000 of anything does a better job or improves my treestand experience. I'm saying that I don't use Sitka Gear for my whitetail hunts. I could afford it, I just can't find the benefit there.

I tend not to get hot coals or burns on my clothing. That's after 40+ years of hunting...so not an issue for me. As for noise, don't believe what anyone tells you as gospel. Try it and determine for yourself. I'd have no problem stalking a deer in Sitka 90%. Other shells and materials may not be as quiet.

By the way...I sold every last piece of my expensive wool, and I haven't missed it.

[swampthing]

Falling in the water. I've done it, it stinks. If it is really cold, but not freezing, do the synthetics dry fast enough to keep you out of hypothermia?
   In sub-freezing temps one could just take off whatever they got on at the time and smack that frozen artical against a tree to shed the "water" but when it's, say 35deg and/or windy, you get soaked, now what. I'm building a fire no matter what, but curious, Mr. Murphy's entance in to your "wilderness" hunt with synthetics on, what will you do waiting for them to dry?

[hill boy]

I have wool that I like for whitail hunting in a stand.But when it come to hiking into the mountains,that is a whole different animal.A hunter that is covering a lot of ground with weather conditions changing somtimes multiple times daily has several things to consider including weight.Which is why I started this thread.To get some good thoughts from experienced hunters using sitka or new era clothing.This has been very helpful,I appreciate everyone's input.

[Kevin Dill]

"Falling in the water. I've done it, it stinks. If it is really cold, but not freezing, do the synthetics dry fast enough to keep you out of hypothermia?"

I think your question is a legit one, but one I can't relate to. By that I mean, a lot of things could happen on a hunt, and falling in water is one. A tree branch can fall, but I don't wear a helmet. If I fell in water during very cold weather, I'd be just as concerned with drowning...but I don't carry a pfd with me to prevent that either. I just know that not one type of fabric does everything perfectly. You just pick and choose your "issues" and then your clothes.

Incidentally, if I fell in with synthetics on: I'd immediately shake and wring as much water out as possible. Syns don't absorb water like wool fibers do. I would do the same with wools. I wouldn't count on either one to keep me out of hypothermia.

[swampthing]

I did'nt like it. Too stuffy feeling, not breathable "enough." Lightweight S.I. Wool is my favorite. If it get's windy I put on the windproof lined wool vest, if it pours I put on a poncho. Very light considering I don't need to layer with anything but my underoos.
  I do like the camo, just not the fabric. Click this pic for a quick video.
   

[Guru]

Ok, I give up....the vid is to show us...what?

[swampthing]

Guru. The gentleman stated he has wool, but want's to spend money on "lightweight stuff." It is my personal account on it. Look past the obvious. Today was about 67deg, humidity was high, raining. Was I frowning, wining, itching, or otherwise looking uncomfortable? Course not. Wearing wool is not only for the cold and stationary, it works everywhere. Insulation is just that, insulation. It will keep you warm or cool, just have to have the know how to thermal regulate.

[Steve O]

Another great thing to do is call the Sitka boys at their office.  They are the experts and have used it all over the world.  They will answer your questions and not give you any hard sell.

877-748-5247 (877-SITKA-GR)

[BD]

Sitka is great if you're moving around such as mountain style elk hunting or in moderate temps, but it doesnt hold a candle to wool for treestand hunting in frigid temps. In very cold weather, I've been extremely dissapointed in sitka and will never buy any again.

[Steve O]

Again, you do not wear the same clothes for active hunting AND stand hunting.  Two completely different activities requiring two completely different styles of clothing.    Nothing  will excel at both.

[Wary Buck]

Having recently asked some of these same questions at Sitka HQ, I'll share what I think may help.  First up, Swampthing's questions.

The Primaloft in the Kelvin insulation series will NOT absorb water according to what we're told.  The Primaloft is supposed to be equal to 550 wt. goosedown (for whatever that's worth).  What I know from experience is the Kelvin line is VERY warm.  I would suspect that it and the Merino garments would retain much of their insulative properties when you get wet.  

As for fire, I don't know.  

As for odor retention, Merino has some natural properties which help hold down odor.  Also many of the Sitka core gloves and garments have ATB-100 (newer) or S2 (older) Silver Technology, which reduces odor-causing bacteria.  I know that I've worn core shirts several days in a row and have been amazed at how well they've done in that regard.

Whisper-quiet when you move?  Most garments absolutely.  Some of the raingear not so much, like the Stormfront where it's close to monsoon-proof at which point it really becomes impossible to be silent.  If you have a specific garment you're wondering about how quiet it is, please ask.  I would feel I could comment on MOST of the current Sitka offerings...as to whether it's whitetail quiet or not.  The vast majority of the gear I have is just that quiet, including the Stratus Jacket and Fanatic Bibs I just ordered.  Also the Jetstream Jacket.

[Wary Buck]

BD...honestly, if you're talking about the Celsius lineup of a couple years ago, I could agree with you that it was not warm enough for truly cold-weather sits, at least for me.  Of course I know guys that stay warm with half the stuff I have to wear.

That said, the current Sitka lineup for the stand hunter is MILES ahead of what it was just 2-3 years ago.  I cannot imagine anybody not finding the Fanatic Jacket and Bibs (with proper insulation/core layers) to keep them warm in the coldest whitetail hunting situations.  These garments are light years beyond the older Celsius style for frigid conditions.  

This year, I didn't feel I could afford the Fanatic jacket, but since I already had the Kelvin insulative layer, I bought the Stratus Jacket.  I'm confident that with one or two core layers, the Kelvin mid-layer, and the Stratus outer layer, that I will be set for long sits in zero degree weather.  (In my opinion, Kelvin stuff is the best value in the Sitka lineup).  

And the Incinerator Jacket (700 wt. down) is a step up from the Fanatic!  I've not had a chance to handle that yet.

I would urge you to take a second look at the Forest Line-Up which is designed for the stand hunter.  It took them a couple years to iron that angle out, which I suppose is to be expected given that this company originated with the mountain hunters who are on the go, or at least stop and go.  

From warmest to least warm outerwear in the Forest Optifade, it runs:  Incinerator, Fanatic, Stratus, 90%.  

In Open Country Optifade, the jacket steps run:  Jetstream, 90%, Ascent.  The Timberline and Mountain Pants would fit in between the 90% and Ascent, closer to the 90%.

[Wary Buck]

Last one tonight.  Kevin makes several good points.  I might expand on what he suggested about getting wet.  The Stormfront and Stormfront Lite are meant to be worn "when it's raining" and taken off when it's not, esp. the Lite version.  One of the things that breaks down raingear is wearing it when it's not needed and subjecting it to additional abuse, especially from brush.  Both of these models can be shaken free of almost all water, put in your pack, and off you go.

Meanwhile the Downpour series is raingear that's quiet enough to hunt in and designed for the stand hunter.  It has a brushed surface (for quiet) which will hold some outside moisture.  But the general idea is the deer hunter is usually going home or to a cabin or motel room where the garment can dry out (it won't shake dry like Stormfront).

One item I learned from the experts is that modern raingear needs to be washed and kept clean.  Too much dirt and the like will definitely have a negative effect on the ability for wonder products like GoreTex, Paclite and Windstopper and the like to move moisture vapor to the outside.

Another recommendation from the experts is that when you are hiking/exerting AND wearing raingear, you may still need to ventilate.  The Stormfront has pit-zips which help this process and the chest zipper of course can help as well.

[JohnV]

I'll add a few comments about the incinerator jacket since few people have one.  It uses premium goose down for insulation and has a gore tex liner to block wind and moisture.  I got one last year for December/January hunting in Iowa.  For a very cold weather jacket, it is not very bulky...arm movement and shooting a bow are not a problem.  I tend to not get as cold as most people.  I can wear the incinerator jacket with light base layer and be perfectly warm down to about 25 degrees.  The jacket blocks wind well...something we have a lot of in Iowa during deer season.  I add the heavier base layer or light polypropylene turtleneck for temps down to about 10 degrees.  For bitter cold, I add the Kelvin vest.  Hunted several hours last year in
-10 weather and had no issues with my upper body being cold.  Just make sure you get a size where the jacket fits a little loose so you can add a few layers underneath for bitter cold.  My only complaint is the lenght of the jacket.  It is more of a bomber jacket than a parka.  For really cold you need bibs underneath to keep cold from sneaking in from mid-body.

[swampthing]

That's my point as well, if it ain't raining, and I mean raining, I would not wear a raincoat, far too stuffy. Wool on the other hand has a enough water repelency, and thermal properties, to keep you dry, and warm, in light rain then a synthetic. Why choke your self with a less breathable product? If it is pouring then ya put on a rain coat.
   They are correct though in the regard that, the fabric will not "absorb" water, the fabric itself is hydrophobic. You can, however, saturate the garment, just dunk it and you'll see that first hand. Trickey marketing right there, as they did not answer your question, merely stated "well it don't absorb water."
   Are you gonna take a chance with light weight out in the wilderness. A slightly heavier garment that allows you to breathe will more than make up for the difference in weight, especially when you are in the high elevations and under exertion.
Thermal regulate my brother.
  Anyway, enough of this techno mumbo jumbo, enjoy the time you get in the mountains, that is one of the many pinacles in bowhunting.
Cliff

[BD]

My point was that I don't participate in active style hunting. 99% of my hunting is for whitetails from treestands. I can get wool for much cheaper than a sitka layering sytem and stay much warmer to boot, so there is no need for me to even consider sitka. I have some I wear for stand hunting in milder temps. It is very comfy and I like how it stretches, but it is WAY overpriced for what I use it for.

[Herdbull]

I bought some KOM wool back in the early 90s and thought it was ove priced at $700 (back then) for jacket and pants, but I still have it today. I hope to have my Sitka a long time as well. The question was about "hoopplaa", and I remember hearing about non-shrinking, "shingle-layered" wool that shed water like KoM and Sleeping Indian back in the day. This thread has a lot of first hand experiences from folks who have tried both and I certainly do understand the difference in oppinoins. I'm glad we have a lot of options to choose from that keep us out there in an aray of terrain and hunting styles. Mike

[Roger Norris]

If Steve O says it's good stuff, believe it.

[hill boy]

well,I feel like I have recieved some very helpful opinions.I have determined that the sitka certainly must have an advantage in the mountains while hiking.The ones who spoke very highly of it does there share of elk,goat,sheep etc.type hunting.This is the very thing I was considering it for.I'm going to see if there is a suit that would fit a september elk hunt.I don't think the whole getup would be justified for the style of hunting I do most of. Especially since I have clothing that I like for most of my hunting needs.On the other hand I don't want to be guilty of picking at it to a point that I'm not getting the true benefits that it is desighned for.