Who has shot the Qarbon Nano?

[usmc2444]

i think joe buck said it all, all we want to know is how it shoots, then decide if you want to buy.

[daveycrockett]

[joebuck]

i'll try to get back on track for Paul the Viking!!  heres my personal oppinion of the Nano i own.

64" 50# @ 28

Pros.
1. First bow i ever owned tapped for a plunger. I said what the heck and installed it. its drilled for two holes ( one for shooting off the shelf and other one higher for targets)..settled on the higher one...A little tweaking and adjusting after reading up on how to set a berger button, and i was dialed in.  matter of fact i loved it so much, i drilled out my personal homemade recurve and installed a plunger. What's real nice is i can shoot broadhead weights from 125 to 300gr by just adjusting the plunger tension.. best arrow flight i ever had..............so in short really LIKE the plunger option....I'm not ready to dominate Fita but i know i can pound a hog with a range of BH's without having to adjust my old leather side plate

2. Carbon Riser......did not grab me at first. Really thought i was not a great enough shot to tell any difference between that and Bodark (ex.). Also thought the light riser weight would transmit hand shock....so i got a 50#er...i normally hunt with 68# to 70#......WISHED i had gotten a 70lber!!!!!!!!!!!!  Makes sense now why Holt and some others have gone to all carbon risers. I really like the light weight riser as opposed to my heavier T/D longbow riser. It swings as fast as my lighter mass weight longbows through the target.

3. Handle grip....i thought at first too skinny .. no problem,i would put a glob of Form-a-grip on it , spray paint it black and "get it Right"..the redneck way ( buy something NEW and fix it). Well i forgot who was building it and which country wins gold medals...it wasnt rednecks like me from North MS..  The grip seats PERFECTLY in my hand like i suppose all those "target punchers" know how a torque free grip should...i spared the riser the Form a Grip...gosh  i am glad.. how ugly would that have been.

4. Perfomance..Now thats a wide open subject...speed? handshock? cast?  etc.....having layed up a limb or two myself    , Of all the factors, heres what impresses me the most...the limbs cast the string straight. Sounds simple...it's not and today slow motion cameras show it. i guess if your limbs are made out of a multi-million dollar machine, they better be straight...these are straight....and in time.  i liked that.. I have never layed up a carbon limb, i know its light mass is attractive for a lighter limb design but i am impressed with limb recovery.. it is fast and quick...no excessive vibration after the shot..of coarse i measured this with no stringer silencers and still dont have any on it....it's quiet  real quiet  i like that..  limb bolt to carbon may lend that hand.

5. Speed.. it's not the fastest..but is in upper class..but speed has it gives and takes....usually a faster bow is noiser.......i like an Accurate bow..this fits the bill

6. finish .....woven carbon is growing on me..its not warm fuzzy feeling and looking like wood because it aint wood.. it's different..

Cons

1. Stickers or logos......totally not traditional...got to thinking why?  well to me it appeared that they made this bow to market to the guys coming from compound that wasnt ready for cocobolo and red elm just yet.. sort of a 'bridge' bow. honestly..i think that was a smart marketing move..maybe brillant...they probably asked themselves "Why jump in the market with a wood bow when there are already some fantastic bowyers out there"..."How can we be different?"  "ok this is different, who can make a carbon riser in USA?"...."where can you buy carbon blocks?"  .......see the trail?...This is not their official response but only my assumptions. I do have a BBA in marketing.. it's from Ole Miss and yes..our football team suxs.

2. price .. it's steep...However There are a couple of bows out there more expensine with substantial less cost of material in them.. Carbon is expensive when you buy it like they have too. Have you checked ACE hardware's price lately?  exactly..you just cant get it unless from oversees to make a riser out of it.. so i give them that....so then i put my logical hat on...Who's making one?  Who can make it?...There was no longbow being made by this company (win and win)...R&R..start from scratch....20 trips overseas , staying for week at a time..thats exspensive!!....they also had to buy molds, cad work, re buy molds...etc...i'm guessing it might have cost 50 to 100,000 ball park. there has got to be some mark up to recoup your investment.... basically the bow is expensive because the material are expensive and it was a start up project.  only my oppinion.  

is it worth it? each one of us is the judge...if you only judge a product on where it's made..then No this bow is not worth it.....then you will probably need to also re-evaluate your Full Metal jacket with that magnus stinger on it too...etc...

[Ragnarok Forge]

I work in the engineering field and can tell you that American made carbon is available in any size you can imagine.  As for folks who buy foreign that is their choice and their freedom to practice.

[Blackhawk]

Joebuck, that's an excellent and seemingly honest evaluation of the bow.  That's the kind of stuff I like to read.    

As for those who are hung up on "buy American", I can see some validity...but not totally.  One needs reminding sometimes that two can play this game.

I personally know more than one bowyer who sells numerous bows to folks in Austria, Germany, Italy, Australia, and other foreign countries.  

I know one Washington state bowyer who exports more bows to Europe than he sells in the USA.  

...so what if all those Italian trad archers decided to buy only Italian?  

[Don Batten]

American carbon might be available but If this bow was built in the usa by union labor, It would cost more than your house. Not trying to stir the pot but , thats the sad hard truth. I spent about two hours with one of these bows and gave it a real going over. It's a great bow and I like alot about it. It's just not my cup of tea. Not because it cost too much. Not because it's not made in the usa. If Lee Hoots lived in China, I'd shoot a imported bow. I wonder how many products in the 3 rivers inventory are made outside the good old USA?

[joebuck]

the carbon ABS uses is an exclusive Win Win pre/ preg carbon. it's produced in a kit. basically a mold where the carbon is layered in the mold...called kitting. Win and Win uses their top secret resins, heating and cooling and pressure for a day and a half.  this is NOT a riser block of carbon CNCed..Additionally all the metal hardware is " kitted" into the mold. not drilled and tapped....inserted with the layering process.Win and Win carbon is only available through them. no other bow is made from their carbon except a Win and Win bow and Alaska Bowhunting supply.  Win and Win does sell their carbon on the open market. it can't be bought raw. There's the difference when I mean it cant be bought downtown.

[DennyK]

My bows need to be made by a USA Bowyer.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Here is that last I will say on this.   And it is long winded! Win and Win makes excellent products.  They are not American products, but they are at least an ally.  

Win and Wins method is not unique as to how they lay up their carbon.   That is how almost every carbon part in the world is made. All carbon is pre-impregnated before it is laid up as scrim or sheets.  And for reference carbon is just carbon,  You can change it's characteristics thru thicker strands and creative patterns in the lay up of the fibers.  There are no super secret carbons out there.  Unless of course your the US military and then they are secret because you call them that in your paperwork.  Yes, I have worked with carbon and glass matrix materials and their lay up processes in my career.  

Super secret or standard resin makes no difference in a riser block.  The riser mass is great enough to counter any special effect.  A limb is another story.  Any properly trained materials engineer can take the characteristics of a Win and Win bow and design a riser and limbs that will match their system.  That is why we have engineers, and why they are well paid. It might take a few runs to get it perfectly matched but it is not that hard.

Joebuck, we are talking about the difference between potatoe and potato here.  I am glad that some folks like the bow.  I am even glad the some folks are buying them.   That is the american way thru freedom of choice.  It does not change that the bow is overpriced and hyped past reality in it's advertising.  

Buying foreign products in place of American products negatively impacts our economy and the American people.   That my friend is why I do not buy foreign products.  Most particularly during a depression.  

I can clearly state that a full on production carbon bow that will match or beat the Quarbon Nano can be easily made for $1500 In the US.  And quite frankly for less by a union shop.  I sat down and ran the numbers.  I then had a buddy who is a materials engineer who manages a union shop check my numbers.

[atatarpm]

Joebuck. Thanks I was feeling pretty beat little up there for a while.  If you will put beaver balls on the string the bow goes dead quiet. You can not here anything frm mine now except for the arrow flying.     54#  66" Qarbon Nano.     Plus my 31.5 inch draw. Making it a 63#er

[atatarpm]

And I do like the looks of my bow.

[joebuck]

R Forge...there is no union shop in America that will or wants to make this bow riser. If it is, ABS would love to talk to them.Furthermore there is no carbon manufacture in USA that has ability to make archery limbs under same roof. Additionally there is no company in USA that inlays metal bushings in their carbon lay up. Win and Win makes an " archery " grade carbon. if carbon is so accessible in USA, who else is making a solid Carbon Riser in a traditional bow? where does Holt buy their carbon. why buy carbon from win and win?  would you go to a custom kitchen and cabinet maker and order a TV?  additionally when your building a " Brand" align yourself with the most respected partners. building a Brand is very expensive. .Win and Win has 30 million dolllar carbon plant making carbon unique to their olympic presence. I am not aware of any USA Union produced risers in the competitive archery circles. little known fact also ,ABS took this bow to two well
known American traditional bow companies that are sponsors on here and was turned down......

Now  your comment about over priced and over hyped..That's your opinion and I respect that. But you and your buddy are at a disadvantage to me that is privy to costs of this bow. Did  your buddy figure in how much a mold cost at Win and Win for the riser?  $20,000 ? 40,000?  how much does 20 round trip oversea tickets cost? what experience has he had with
building a bow with Win and Win? the start cost up cost for
this bow was staggering. Additionally Have your buddy run these numbers......what it cost to make the bow you are currently shooting?  I have made a lot of glass bows and know cost myself            .... Heck you can even get a Bingham Catalog and figure it up yourself......what do you think is the mark up on your personal bow 3-4-500%??  Seriously you have about 80 to 100 dollar material cost in
your bow and what does it retail for 500', 600, or 1000? And I am sure rightfully so . I wouldn't sell my handmade recurves for less than 1200.        .

 In closing , ABS did not simply pick this bow out of a Win and Win / Belcher catalog and say" put our name on it".  2 year project at least with a failed partnership to begin. a lot of overhead. What is a reasonable return on investment 10,5,3 years?  

IMO we are talking difference between an Idaho and sweet potato ....both make french fries.... I

[joebuck]

[joebuck]

no problem Atatarpm!  You will learn I am a self appointed Alaska Bowhunting Supply guardian angel on here.. it's a rough job sometimes.  ...... Very close friends of mine for 20 plus years.

batman....after seeing you shoot that Hoots bow, I believe you could take a Win and Win 300lb Korean  woman Pro shooter on 20 targets at Clarkehill!

[wv lungbuster]

[Ragnarok Forge]

Joebuck.  I said my piece and stand behind it.   We ran the price of molds, start up, production and all other expenses.  That is what we do for a living.  The bow is overpriced and over hyped and that is my opinion based in 20 years of engineering experience.  If you would like to continue the friendly disagreement we are having send me a pm.

[Jim Wright]

I find it interesting that when the decision to develop and market the bow was made, it was an American bowyer who was chosen to design and bring it along from concept to product. I find it amazing that there are some who believe that A.B.S. had to go overseas because of a lack of technological expertise in this country that produces the world's finest nuclear submarines, smart bombs, computer chips etc.., etc..
  Finally, there are quite a number of custom bowyers in this country that produce bows that equal and some that exceed the Quarbon Nanos performance in lighter bows made from the most expensive exotic woods available charging FAR less than $1500.00. But the idea that if any of them thought there was enough demand to produce the bow the cost of material and the national bow builders union would drive production overseas?
  GIVE ME A BREAK!

[MikeW]

Did your buddy figure in how much a mold cost at Win and Win for the riser? $20,000 ? 40,000?

I once looked into having molds made for a fly tying idea I had(which someone else finally did)
and I was quoted $10-12K for the first proto type and after that more would be cheaper but that was the cost to just tool one and I needed 6. That was around 20 years ago so I'm sure that would be doubled today.

[joebuck]

RagForge...opinion respected...we agree to disagree...on carbon....

Jim wright...the original design was going to be 100% american made..Then that Bowyer fell off the map ( thats been kicked to the curb on here!).. then they regrouped, offered to several other american bow companies that turned it down. I believe the carbon aspect was what the Hot issue was..Nobody over here wanted to touch it. So if your going to build a carbon bow, why not build it in a 100 million dollar Archery manufacture plant that produces it own carbon......ABS would love to have this bow produced state side..if anyone knows a plant that can reproduce this bow exactly stateside...then PM me and i will give u Garrett Schlief cell number..or call then direct.. That would cut down on costs tremedously.

[wv lungbuster]

Originally posted by usmc2444:
my trial did not work out, bow came without string , did send string three days latter, i was told i would still have to return bow as of orginal time, tried to put bow together, holes did not line up, had to send back, got no support to see what idid wrong was told if i was unhappy go to diiferent bow maker, it turned out okay as i get someone else place in centaur line due in march. none of this makes sense to me as they came highly recommended, was going to show bow at three day shot.  still do not know if it was problem putting bow together which seemed like a no brainer, any comments would be welcome  so cant comment on bow. just treatment, thanks

What happened here??