woodsman, slick trick vs zwickey

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by JamesKerr:
I would go with the woodsman as it will penetrate like a 2 blade even in moderately heavy bone but leaves a better blood trail.

and, the woodsman was designed with "lighter weight" stick bows in mind.

if i HAD to use less than 60# for elk, i'd do some "homework" and ...

* test out different mass weight arrows to see the trajectories at 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards, and go with whatever arrow had at least 10gpp or better and had the best compromise of arc with 15 yards as the main distance criteria

* after selecting an arrow weight, test out different sharpened broadheads for penetration and go with whatever penetrates the most on a foamie target butt

going under 60# lessens the odds of good kill.  going under 50# is like betting on the lotto, so be prepared to enjoy nature's scenery 'cause true shot opportunities on elk will be few and far between.

ymmv.

[pamike]

WOW - lots of info.

so first of all - only hunting whitetails right now (no Elk)

I agree that slick trick designs would limit penetration compared to steep angle - great point and i was not thinking that way.  I was more focused on a really sharp good flying head.

sounds like zwickeys have performed well and my issues are probably purely my form - new to this sport (but I am trying to convert from wheels).

I appreciate the help and patience while i work thru a setup.  i really dont want to wound an animal because i did not take the time to prepare!!

what about the expensive Alaksa Bowhunting Supply heads - why so expensive? worth it?

Need to find a 2 blade that is super sharp our of box.  i dont want to rely on my sharpening skills.  who makes them consistently sharp out of the box.

thanks
Mike

[toehead]

Mike-Magnus stingers are always extremely sharp out of the package.  You may also look at the woodsman with the KME edge.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by pamike:
WOW - lots of info.

so first of all - only hunting whitetails right now (no Elk)

Penetration shouldn't be a problem. Get it sharp, get it tuned, get it where it belongs -- dead deer. As far as North American big game, they're one of the easiest to penetrate. Folks have been shooting through them with 40-something-pound recurves and modular blades for decades.

 

Originally posted by pamike:


I agree that slick trick designs would limit penetration compared to steep angle - great point and i was not thinking that way.  I was more focused on a really sharp good flying head.
 

That's not a bad thing to be focused on, and it's a lot more important than whether or not anyone thinks something looks "traditional." There are a few 2- and 4-blade screw-in COI vented heads that come highly recommended and are extremely sharp out of the package, such as Muzzy Phantoms.


 

Originally posted by pamike:

sounds like zwickeys have performed well and my issues are probably purely my form - new to this sport (but I am trying to convert from wheels).

Your tuning may be marginal too. The further from good tune you get, the more critical variations in form become.

[Gen273]

I also think you need to look at the Magnus Stinger. However, just chose what you like and preforms best out of your bow.

Let us know what you end up with.

[J. Holden]

For my first few years I was also frustrated with my sharpening abilities.  Until the Woodsman came along, I shoot them now, I was using Steelforce broadheads.  The also come hunting sharp out of the package.  Good luck getting your set up narrowed down.

-Jeremy  

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pamike:
 .....  Need to find a 2 blade that is super sharp our of box.  i dont want to rely on my sharpening skills.  who makes them consistently sharp out of the box.

thanks
Mike

no no no no and NO!!!  

lemme nip this in the bud pronto ....

you have GOT to learn to sharpen your broadheads - this is absolutely MANDATORY for any bowhunter.  the no-brainer way to sharpen twin blades is with the kme sharpener, and then learn how to use a 6" file for field re-sharpening.  if you go with the wensel woodsman (my personal go-to broadhead for deer and hogs), all you will need is a file (do a search, there are more than a few threads on how to get a woodsman shaving sharp).

again, you MUST learn how to sharpen your broadheads.  sharpening broadheads and knives are just necessary skills that are absolute criteria for bowhunting.

[JamesKerr]

Rob I have always had a interest in hunting elk, although it is not likely to happen anytime soon. How do you think my setup would perform. I shoot a tomahawk diamond series bow pulling 53 @ 27 with a 28.5 " CE heritage series shaft spine rating 250 topped off with a 175 grain woodsman elite/ VPA terminator and a 50 grain brass insert. total arrow weight is 590 grains.

[koger]

What Rob said, definitley a 2 blade, Razor sharp. I would go with a magnus, Ace Std, or elcipse teflon, all about 150gr.  total with inserts for my carbons with that # bow you have.
I have used this set up for whitetails with a #45 bow, had great results, short blood trails. All shots were 22yds and under also. Just mho.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by JamesKerr:
Rob I have always had a interest in hunting elk, although it is not likely to happen anytime soon. How do you think my setup would perform. I shoot a tomahawk diamond series bow pulling 53 @ 27 with a 28.5 " CE heritage series shaft spine rating 250 topped off with a 175 grain woodsman elite/ VPA terminator and a 50 grain brass insert. total arrow weight is 590 grains.

i have NEVER hunted elk let alone killed one.  i can only speak from a theoretical elk technical tackle viewpoint and not real world.  if i was fortunate enuf to elk hunt, i'd want a holding weight in excess of 60# and 700 grain arrow.

i'm sure the real elk hunters will chime in to properly answer yer question.

[pamike]

what is the deal with silver flame heads?

OK i will learn to sharpen heads - i have to say that i have never even contemplated reusing a broadhead.  too cheap to just always use new.  feels like the only ethical thing to do and when you are spending the kind of money i do every year on archery $10/shot is the best investment i think i can make!!

mike

[Terry Green]

Yeah....stay away from 'one shot' heads.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by pamike:
what is the deal with silver flame heads?

OK i will learn to sharpen heads - i have to say that i have never even contemplated reusing a broadhead.  too cheap to just always use new.  feels like the only ethical thing to do and when you are spending the kind of money i do every year on archery $10/shot is the best investment i think i can make!!

mike

understand that a broadhead can lose its edge from handling (going in an out of quivers) and oxidation (rust, corrosion).  and you will shoot a few, for practice, won'tcha?  

unless you spend the BIG money on a FEW silver flames (which will probably send you to the emergency room if yer not big time careful - i know of two folks that got bit bad by silver flames), yer either gonna hafta ship the heads to a guy like ron @ kme for sharpening or just learn to do it yerself.  heck you already know how to sharpen a knife, don'tcha?  please don't tell me NO????!!!!!  else how will gut, skin and process yer deer?

sharpening broadheads and knives isn't rocket science.  it's too easy once you know a good process.  git yerself schooled in blade sharpening - it's a major part of trad bowhunting!

[K. Mogensen]

If your willing to buy new broadheads everytime, you should probably be able to buy a KME. You could get the KME knife sharpener, and sharpen your Bheads and knives.

I have to agree with Rob, sharpening your steel is a very important part of bowhunting.

[varmint101]

You do need to learn how to sharpen.

That said, sharpest 2blade head out of the package I've had my hands on(discounting Silverflames) is a Muzzy Phantom.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by JamesKerr:
Rob I have always had a interest in hunting elk, although it is not likely to happen anytime soon. How do you think my setup would perform. I shoot a tomahawk diamond series bow pulling 53 @ 27 with a 28.5 " CE heritage series shaft spine rating 250 topped off with a 175 grain woodsman elite/ VPA terminator and a 50 grain brass insert. total arrow weight is 590 grains.

My go-to setup for the past several years has been an unweighted carbon arrow (500 grains, give or take a couple) with a 25-grain insert and a 125-grain head going in the 190 fps range. I killed my elk with that setup and blew completely through a mature bull moose. How would your setup perform? Assuming good tuning and proper shot placement: dead elk.

OK i will learn to sharpen heads - i have to say that i have never even contemplated reusing a broadhead.  too cheap to just always use new.  feels like the only ethical thing to do and when you are spending the kind of money i do every year on archery $10/shot is the best investment i think i can make!!

mike [/b]

Mike,

Resharpening broadheads isn’t very difficult at all. There are a lot of excellent tutorials on this site on how to get an extremely sharp edge with nothing more than basic tools – file, stone, crock stick, etc. For the price of a two three-packs of many modular heads, you can get everything you need (including a half dozen solid heads) and play with them until you get the knack for honing your own edges.

[pamike]

yes i can sharpen knives and yes thankfully I get to skin 4-5 deer per year.  Difference for me is the knife does not need to be spin tested and fly straight.  If knife is not sharp - i just resharpen.  If broadhead is not right - i make a bad shot on a deer and do not make a clean kill.

I think i am going to see if i can buy some broadheads from someone who has already tested a bunch of different heads so that i can see which i prefer.  someone has to have a collection of "used" heads they would not mind parting with.  I know i had a ton when i tried a bunch for my Bowtech.

i do have to say the the zwickey eskimo that is now properly tuned flies great.  may no thave to look further, but i like to "play" and "test".

thanks again
mike

[Rob DiStefano]

flying and sharpening broadheads are two entirely diff'rent things.  

what broadhead will fly best for your arrow and bow is in the testing.

if you can sharpen a knife that'll easily skin out a deer, you should have no problem learning how to sharpen any coc broadhead.

[Onestringer]

Lots of good info here.  I shoot 48lbs at my draw.  I shot the Slick Trick Razor Tricks last year and this spring for turkeys.  For a guy who is very challenged when it come to sharpening heads I really like the Slick Trick Razor Tricks.  The blades were the sharpest I have ever seen.

Killed 4 deer and 2 turkeys with Razor Tricks last fall and two turkeys this Spring.  I think they are a good head.  Ferrell is made of steel I don't think I could ruin one of these heads.

Killed literally dozens of deer with Zwickeys, got out of college and my dad quit sharpening my heads so I had to switch to muzzys.  Zwickeys are a great head, if you can't get them to fly, you may have bigger problems.  

Woodsman I would go with the elite, I have not shot them, but many on this forum have and have good comments.

[Old Chief]

On June 7, 2011, "highPlains" posted: "Broadhead talking points."  It is a very informative read and should help you deciding which is the best broadhead for you.  We all use what we can get the sharpest, fly the straightest and have had the best success with.