A challenge to us traditional guys

[Flingblade]

Well said Boone.  I was walking out of a public hunting area in Oklahoma 1995 with my compound and met a guy carrying a Dan Quillan recurve.  It was a Patriot I think.  I had shot recurves with my grandfather when I was a kid but had not thought of hunting with one.  I liked the look of the bow and asked if I could see it.  He handed it to me and I looked it over and drew it back.  THe guy was really nice and didn't have any kind of elitist attitude.  Shortly thereafter I ordered my first traditional bow.  A Bob Lee recurve.  Have been hunting with traditional bows since.  This brief interaction made a lifelong impact on me and I try to remember that when I meet up with others that hunt with different equipment.

[BradLantz]

"but has been put off by several different trad guys over the years that look down on him or treat him like a lesser person because of the fact that he shoots a compound"

The ironic part is, I bet he looks down on those who choose to shoot crossbows (and he shoots a compound)

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

I have to admit that I am guilty of ribbing my buddies about hunting with modern equipment but that's all it is, just kidding around.  

I'm not defending talking down to anyone because of the gear they use but it does go both ways.  I have personally caught the looks and the snide remarks about using trad gear and taking animals that some certain hunters with modern gear wouldn't have taken.  Most memorable was my first ever trad kill which was a button buck that I took from the ground with a shot of a whopping 8 feet.  When I left the tagging station the other guys that were there made me feel about an inch tall about what in my mind was probably the proudest hunting moment I'd had up to that point.  I would post the remarks they made but they were both brutal and vulgar.

My point is anyone can be ignorant no matter what they hunt with.

[mt-dew10]

I hunt with a core group of guys that all shoot compounds.  I'm the lone traditional archer.  Needless to say we never give each other unnecessary 'crap' about what weapon we choose.  

Overall, I'm just grateful that I have the necessary health to get out there and bowhunt.  I know my friends feel the same.  

Having 'sights' or any other advantages doesn't guarantee anything.  One still needs to get close to the animals.  This is where the real skill lies.  Bowhunting is still challenging, especially when one decides to do it ethically.

[jcar315]

Originally posted by Boone the Hunter:
  My main point for writing this is I think we in the traditional archery world need to reach out to compound and gun hunters, be friendly and there friend to develop in them the desire to take up the traditional way of hunting instead of driving a wedge inbetween us.      

I have been reading this thread with much interest over these few days and while  I think I understand the general point that is being conveyed I could not disagree more with the "main point" quoted above.

Others have said it as well but it is not my responsibility to reach out to compound shooters & gun hunters and help them "take up the traditional way of hunting."

In every aspect of my life I place a priority on treating people with respect, dignity, and in general treating them the way I would like to be treated.

If by conducting myself in such a way prompts a question from someone else regarding some aspect of my life (including how I hunt) I am more than happy to answer any questions, help them get started, and encourage them along the way.

The notion that somehow everyone needs to become a traditional bowhunter (just like me) is wrong in my opinion and does not ring true in my life. The whole if you don't do "it" like I do then you are wrong makes absolutly no sense to me.  

If someone wants to gun / compound hunt then God bless them and I won't ever tease / joke around / belittle / put them down / poke fun at etc. in any way. They are free (just like I am) to pursue hunting in the way the see fit.

I will say that on more than one occasion I have had other hunters question / put down my chosen method of hunting. I only hunt with traditional great but that is my choice and no one elses. I don't have an elitist bone in my body but after all these years I have made a choice that works for me.

If all it takes to discourage someone from trying something is how some small sampling of people who participate in that activity act then maybe they didn't really want to try in the first place.

Why other people feel the need to bring others over to their side of the fence is beyond me. I am perfectly a-okay being in the very small minority. I am consistent in that I don't tell anyone else how to run their life and I don't want anyone telling me how to run mine.

[Boone the Hunter]

car315 We disagree in a couple area's with each other which is fine but I would like to convay my thoughts on yours. I have no desire to force anybody to go down any path they don't want to or tell anyone how to run their life, but do think there's a real benifit to the whole reaching out part. As an example I have several freinds that I have gotten into trad archery that weren't hunters or were compound guys and I didn't force anything on them but my invitations to try it out such as lending bows and helping to get set up were what brought them into it, everyone that has always goes man! this awesome and are hooked. Some say it was okay and move on. But I now have a group of family and friends to share with that love it as much as I do and their all out telling others about it and all of a sudden you have made an impact on a lot of people. Was that my responsibility? maybe not, but I'm sure glad I did it. I love that I found trad and want to share and I think there are a lot of others that would like to try it out as well but are maybe a little intimidated. A warm group of guys that are always looking to share there sport will create a great atmosphere to welcome in those that are interested which  is my point.
   I also look back to guys like Fred Bear and Howard Hill that in there day were the smallest minority around with bowhunting but lived there whole lives reaching out, encouraging to try and promoting their sport, and now we have modern day bow hunting as a result. I look at a lot of hunting and hunters today that seem to be bored with the run out and kill it style of hunting that have no Idea what there missing out on as far as getting back into real woodsmanship and a love for the outdoors. So I for one am going to make it a pursuit of mine to show such things to those I come into contact with.
   I think the leave everything alone and see what happens approach will leave a lot of people out there missing out on something great were all it would've taken is somebody going out of there way a bit to share, I'm certainly not saying to force anything. I for one would like to see traditional archery grow in size and popularity because its awesome and would get a lot of people reconnected with the real outdoors. That could only be a good thing these days were more people hunt deer on there phones than in the woods.

[Jake Diebolt]

I hunt with two compound shooters (my dad and uncle) and I shoot at a club with 20 compound shooters and one guy who shoots traditional as well as compound. For the most part people are pretty good, but there's a bit of a gulf there - some of them no doubt question the effectiveness of my choice of bow. And I can't help but bite my tongue sometimes at what I see on the range - like adjusting a beginner's sights for the fifteenth time to try and make him more accurate, when he's got some serious form issues.

I've never made a snide comment to people, and I've received a few playful jabs (nothing an adult can't handle). When people ask about my bow, I encourage them to try a shot with it. Most of the guys immediately put their hands up and go "no, it's ok, I don't know how to shoot fingers, don't want to wreck your arrows, etc.". The ones who do shoot it usually remark on the lack of letoff and hand me the bow back. One guy went so far as to pick up a used recurve and try it out for a week or so. He shot poorly (as everyone does when picking up a recurve or longbow for hte first time) and with everyone else watching, I think he was embarassed. He ended up leaving the recurve at home because of it. I was a little saddened that he'd given it up, but he'd given it a shot.

In short, I try my best not to be snobby or negative (can't say I'm perfect, but I catch myself), and the guys I shoot with are fun and respectful.

 What seems to draw the line with me is the difference between the guys who get out and shoot, practice and put some effort into it, regardless of their tool of choice, and the ones who dust off their rifle/crossbow/compound a month before deer season for the once-a-year practice session. If you're out shooting a compound with devotion, discipline and a respect for the animals you hunt, you can shoot with me anytime. Who knows, maybe we can learn something from each other.

[centaur]

I recently went shooting with a guy who was shooting a compound, on a range that was obviously designed with compound shooters in mind; lots of 60 yard shots, some up to 80. He was shooting them and consistently hitting at those ranges, while I would take an occasional shot at maybe 50 yards, but then go up to 'my' range and shoot (usually around 20 yards). We had a fun time, me in my zone and him in his. I offered to let him shoot my bow, as he loved the look of it, but he declined, saying that he would not be able to hit the bales at 20 yards with it, let alone the target. He commented that trad guys begin their hunt when his might be ending, and that he might like to try a stickbow sometime. There was never any comments between us that would be derogatory; his method and mine were just different. I wouldn't be surprised that some day he will try a traditional bow, but if he doesn't, it is none of my business.
I regularly hunt with two compound guys, and I take as much game as they do. None of us are elitist about our chosen methods, and we have a great time. I would much rather hang out with some compound/rifle guys than a bunch of idiots from PETA.

[Pepper]

I have a friend, who shoots a compound.  Last year, he bought a recurve, and has brought it to hunting camp regularly.  He practices with us using his recurve, and is getting pretty darned good at it.
He still hunts with his compound, and says that he doesn't feel competent hunting with his recurve yet.
Good for him, and I really don't care what he uses to hunt with, he hunts with us,(traditional shooters), helps with the animals and camp chores, just like he was shooting a traditional bow.  He is an archery hunter, and a friend, as far as I am concerned he could use a spear if that is what he feels confident with.
Thanks to all of you for your input on this matter, it makes for good reading, and re-enforces the reason I come here.
Thanks

[Turkeys Fear Me]

I find that those that ridicule others for their legal huning methods or equipment are usually dealing with some insecurities of their own.

Not always but often.

[KentuckyTJ]

More about our hunting brothers. I have some friends that can't shoot their compounds as well as I can shoot my stick bows as they never practice. On the other hand I have a few that can stack arrows inside a softball at 50-60 yards and that isn't easy even with a compound. Those guys shoot a lot and have mastered their choice of equipment and I think that deserves respect.

As much as I dislike gun season, the guy that can consistently shoots his leadslinger well at long ranges deserves respect for going above and beyond in the attempt to master his equipment in the effort of making a quick, clean, human kill.

If I master the atalatl and start killing deer with it should I discredit traditional archers? To each his own.

[NJWoodsman]

I think the biggest dividers of the sport is not the "traditional elitists" or compound shooters, it's the marketing departments of the manufacturers & vendors.

Their basic pitch, after all, is "our product is new, better, different and therefore superior". This is how you end up with "traditional only" or "Team Realtree" decals on trucks, etc. Though bowhunting is a solitary sport, people want to identify with groups, and the industry caters to that.

[T Folts]

My best buddy shoots a compound and another friend and cousin shoot cross bows. I could care less. I make bows and love trad archery but the less I say about anothers style the better.
I shoot in a blended league in the spring and a All trad league in the winter and enjoy both equally.

[Rick Richard]

I understand both sides of the fence since I shoot traditional Left handed and Wheelies right handed.  I just love bows and bowhunting.

[Don Batten]

This is without a doubt one of the best discussions I have read on here in months. Thanks for posting your thoughts Daniel. I been hunting with stickbows only since the late 1980's. funny thing is, i been thinking of getting a wheel bow as of late. It's all good. Good hunting and shooting to all. Don Batten

[PaddyMac]

Some really good thoughts.

One thing we need to keep in mind is the "and then what" so many people forget to ask.

Any time trad bowhunters argue with modern bowhunters over equipment, sooner or later it devolves into "wounding loss" and we all lose.

[snag]

The old "I saw a deer walking around with an arrow sticking out of it" remark. I always reply that unfortunately there is a risk of wounding an animal no matter what weapon you choose to hunt with. That is why traditional hunters are extra careful by getting into the 20yd range before committing to taking a shot.
Pat discussions (not arguments) should be fact based. It anyone wants to discuss wounding numbers for each weapon category they better bring some evidence and facts.

[Gen273]

Boone,
I agree!!!!

Good job!          

[Downwind Lefty]

I'll be the only guy in elk camp not using either a compound or muzzleloader but we'll all have fun and there will be some good natured teasing.

A few years ago I went and was the last one to arrive in camp. I'll never forget - the first comment one of the archers (who I'd never met before) made when I pulled my takedown long bow out of the case and put it together in front of them was "Man, and I thought I was at a disadvantage"...I thought that was funny, especially with the look on his face and how sincere he was.

Well I was practicing shortly there after (the season came in the next day), shooting at water bottles, and as we get a lot - there was a natural curiousity. I had the bottle at about 25 yards and was hitting it some & missing it some.

Well my buddy comes out with his compound, borrows a zwickey head and screws it on his arrow - then drills the bottle at about 35 yards on his first shot. With a smug grin he said "do that bud".....

So I grabbed the bottle, moved it back to about 20 yards and plopped my big rear on the ground leaning against a tree. I then proceeded to drill it from a sitting position. Of course I looked up at him and said --- "do that bud..."!!! We still laugh about that today.

He immediately got up, went over to the cooler and brought me a cold Coor's. With a big grin on his face he said - you know, I had one of those bows when I was a kid. Might have to dig it out!!

Different strokes for different folks. All of our tools serve a purpose and I see no reason or need for an elitist attitude.

[Suty]

I go on a hunt every year with a bunch of fellow Firefighters (25-30) we chase Hogs and Javys in S.Tejas.. I am the only totally Trad guy there, another guy swaps between the two. If any of you know Firefighters then you know our Brotherhood, Jokes and Agitation are a large part of it.( Crawling into a sleeping bag only to find a Javelina Piglet in there too)  So, you can imagine the Crap I put up with    However,  I give as good as I get, and at the end of the day, we are all just Hunters. Gun or Bow , Trad or Compound, as long as we respect our Game and our fellow hunting Brotheren, then we have furthered our sport and our love of the outdoors. I'm  just not sure about those Crossbow Guys, is it a Gun or a Bow ? A Gunbow?    just kidding it's the dang Fireman in me coming out again. Tu Compadre de Tejas, Sutty