Carbons a different animal !!!

[Gator1]

IMHO:

Carbons as Joe said are more tunable to length than tip weight.  You cut those shafts 1/4" too short, and all the weight in the world won't bringem back.

Carbons are great for retailiers, especially if you swith bows quite often, not that i do.    

I have recently bought some MFX600s and I like the skinny shaft simply getting a cut before center bow to act like a center cut bow, the skinnier shaft diameter does make a difference, and my feelings it will shoot out of a wider range of bows.

I gave up shooting compounds when over draws and releases were voge almost 20 years ago.... To me, the quietest shafts are wood, and I'm going to journey back in that direction.

[Ben Maher]

Out of  my Hill style longbows , cut no where near centre , i have to add some serious weight up front . I like heavy arrows so it doesn't bother me ... My AD TradLites fly pretty well regardless of head weight at my 27" draw ... but load them up with 300gns and they fly like laser beams ...
But 2016's are easier ! lol

[LongStick64]

Well said Shawn, took me a long time to learn that I was cutting my carbons too short for a trad rig.

[Shawn Leonard]

This is good, we are getting out the info I wanted!! That is that most guys can get away with a lot more weight up front than they think.  Try loading up the front of your carbons. They are more length sensitive, but if you have some that you may of cut a tad short add some more weight up front. I was told that with my new Border limbs that I was gonna need a much stiffer spine and even with all my experience, I bought into it. I bought some 340s and some 400 spine and cut them to 29.5"s than decided to add weight until they tuned, well guess what? I am shooting 52#s at 28.5"s and to get good flight from the .400s I had to go to 325 grains up front, notice I said good not perfect. I ended up with a 29.5" .500 spine with 190 grains up front for perfect flight. It is also no shock to me that even with 225 up front they are ever so slightly weak and fletched up I get a perfect hole in paper from 9 to 20 ft. Please take any arrow recommendations with a grain a salt, but use my first post as a starting point and get yourself at least in the ballpark and than play with length and point weight. Have Fun! Shawn

[mrjsl]

Do ya think that Stu's calculator might be to blame for some of it? My arrows are 25+ pounds lighter in dynamic spine than the calc. says I need. I started with 250's mainly because of the calculator.

[Shawn Leonard]

Do not want to place blame anywhere, but Stus calculator even when I enter everything perfectly has me 25#s lighter and in some cases even more with my set ups. Like I said even Sid from Borders bows told me I would need a much heavier spine but my bareshafting and paper tuning do not lie. I do not want to come off as knowing the answers to every arrow question, I just base my advise on shooting a lot of different bows over the years and knowing what should work. Shawn

[LongStick64]

It's kind of funny when I go to the local archery shops that cater to compound shooters and I ask for my carbons full length. I'm on the short side so they look me over and ask what my draw length is. When I say 26.5 they get this funny look on their face, priceless.

[jhg]

I am one of the two or three emails a day people asking Shawn for advice. Glad to see it on the page here.

Not an expert, but my experience has been carbons (at least beman bowhunters) when close to where you want to be are very sensitive to length and weight changes. 10 grains can make a slightly stiff set up slightly weak etc.

Anyway, with my 60# @ 30" bow I need 32-1/4 inches of length end of insert to nock groove with 250grns up front, not including footing, to get 340's to fly true.

400's, same weight up front I had to cut to 30-3/4 inches. Right on the cusp for my draw length.


Joshua

[chopx2]

Ok, I'm gonna regret posting, but here goes.

There is a diffference in spine between wood arrows spined to .500 vs, carbon spined to .500 but it has nothing to do with the bow being shot.

Wood spine is based on a 2# weight suspened on the center of the shaft supported 26" apart, but carbon arrow makers support the shafts 28" apart. If they brought the supports together to 26"the spine would be stiffer than the wood.

[Shawn Leonard]

I should also say that anyone can PM me anytime for advise. I try and respond asap! I like doing it and hopefully I can help, if it takes a day or two it just means I am busy, not avoiding ya!(LOL!) Shawn

[jesse cales]

i've found out shawn is pretty much right on.i've done alot of arrow testing lately.i'm settling on a mfx500 30"with 225gr. up front out of a 52@29 recurve.

[BWD]

Got a few arrows properly spined/tuned to my bows, and a fairly good size box of arrows that are the result of my experiments along the way.

[SERGIO VENNERI]

See This is why i shoot aluminums ! I don't need a calculator, I never lose any and the tin can 'Ping" is the last thing any critter will ever hear! Oh! except for my Snuffer hiss.LOL. You know that "eh" Joe! Hee Hee.

[The Whittler]

Thank you Shawn. I think you do a very good job and appreciate your input,don't stop.

[JamesKerr]

I will disagree with you Shawn as every bow I have ever owned has like a heavier spined arrow. My current set up is a Tomahawk diamond series bow pulling 55 @ 28". I shoot a traditional only shaft .340 cut to 30 1/4" with a 100 grain brass insert and a 175 grain point and I get perfect flight. This also allows me to shoot a fairly heavy arrow (620 Grains).

[JDunlap]

I've been shooting full length 340 MFX classics out of a 57#@29" recurve; 200gn point and aluminum insert [can't remember the weight of the insert]. When I stump shoot in the woods, they shoot very well, or when there is no wind at all. However, if there is the slightest breeze they wobble. Can this be remedied with better tuned arrows?
When I read Shawn's post I had that sinking feeling again since i just traded for these arrows, and another half dozen easton epic 340's.

[Night Wing]

Shawn,

I just don't like the pencil thin diameters of carbon arrows.

Second, look at the poundages of my two recurves in my signature. Then, look at the 32" BOP arrow I shoot.

Giving that I've already said I don't like the pencil thin diameters of carbon arrows, could you give me a larger diameter carbon shaft that I could make into a 32" BOP arrow at the low poundages I shoot?

BTW, with a pair of yarn wool puffs installed on my bowstring, my Blacktails are very quiet upon arrow release with my 2212 aluminum arrows.

[Old Chief]

Where was this post before I spent several hundred dollars learning this for myself?  Shawn I have to agree with you on this and it is good to know that you are available as a resource if I run into any other problems.  I have several dozen extra shafts in different sizes, but I have learned a lot and it is fun experminenting.  The most important thing I learned is not to cut the shaft until I am more than sure they need it, and to makes small cuts.  The ends don't glue back so well.

[BSBD]

A 300 or 340 spine arrow is the same spine regardless of the bow. The arrow doesn't know if it's being shot out of a compound or a real bow.

A .500 spine arrow will work out of a 35 - 55lb trad bow but you will have to spend time working with length and point weight. If you think you can cut every arrow to 28" and screw on a 125 point then you're better off having the local shop do the tuning for you.

I have a 60# self bow that cannot possibly shoot a 340 arrow without bouncing off of the riser. I also have a high performing carbon longbow and static tip recurve, both 62@28 that shoot 29" 340's well with 235 up front. Both of these arrows show slightly weak with any increase in length, point weight or draw length. Bareshafts out to 50 yards prove it.

I would rather shoot a .300 spine arrow but the selection isn't as great.

[plentycoupe]

Well since your giving me advice on another post let me ask this one here. Maybe it will help others at some point.

What would you suggest for a starting point with a new bow I have in the mail.

Blacktail elite vl recurve,
55@27", I draw 28.5 consistantly so am assuming 59lbs, I don't have a scale to measure.

I have brass inserts and a good selection of field points but my arrows are currently limited to
GT
3355
5575
and I have 4 full length CE Heritage 350.

I can order others but would like to find "the one" with what I have if I can.

Thanks
Jason