Carbons a different animal !!!

[randy grider]

They are stiff, but they are also light, so adding point weight is an excellent way to get a heavy, yet properly spined FOC arrow that recovers quick, penetrates better than anything else, is tougher than anything else, and cheaper than anything else at around $40 a dozen. I love 'em !

[Shawn Leonard]

Plentycoupe the 55/75 will work for you just start long and cut from the nock end. Go with a minimum of 225 grains of point weight. I would bet if you leave them 30"s long than 225-275 will have you right in the ballpark!! BSDS my post states what you said about a 35/55 working in a trad bow but as you said long and heavy point out of a trad bow at 35#s. I agree about the spine rating but not as you put it, the bow does know the difference as a trad bow is nowhere near as efficient as the compund, that is why a 60# compound with the same arrow shot from a trad bow will do 50 fps. more or more. Read my original post again. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

Nightwing CE, Goldtip, Easton Fatboy. They all make fat carbons and you could go with the next spine up  from what you think and add plenty of point weight to get the weight up where you want it as most are fairly light gpi. from what I know. Someone may make a heavier gpi. fat carbon shaft too than go with the lighter spine and add the weight you need to get perfect flight and have a nice tough hunting and stumping shaft. Do a search and check bowhunterssuperstore or Lancaster. They are out there. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

BSDS, not saying your bow won't shoot that arrow well but I am saying it is not optimum for that bow. I am 100% sure that you could get away with a .400 spine cut to 29"s and 225 grains up front. One of the absolute best shooters I know, shoots a high performance recurve that is 63#s at his 28.5" draw and shoots a .400 spine cut to 29.5"s and he is shooting 250 grains up front. His bow is 3/16th. past center so this also helps. Absolutely perfect flight, it may help his release is flawless but he is the best shot I know.  Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

One last post for now, remember I am not saying there are not a ton of factors. I am referring really only to one aspect and that is what my original post is about. Just getting folks a good starting point, so they do not waste money on shafts that do not work for them. People will listen to who they want but remember not all advise is created equal. Just use some common sense and read my first post to get ya started in the right direction. Shawn

[Walter Mauney]

Thanks for the information.

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:

Nightwing CE, Goldtip, Easton Fatboy. They all make fat carbons and you could go with the next spine up  from what you think and add plenty of point weight to get the weight up where you want it as most are fairly light gpi. from what I know. Someone may make a heavier gpi. fat carbon shaft too than go with the lighter spine and add the weight you need to get perfect flight and have a nice tough hunting and stumping shaft. Do a search and check bowhunterssuperstore or Lancaster. They are out there. Shawn

I love to experiment and will take your advice. Of course, with bowhunting season just around the corner, it looks like it will be the middle of January when I try a carbon arrow. Not enough time to experiment with a fat carbon arrow at this late juncture. Thanks for your advice, knowledge and info.

[Friend]

I seem to be able to consitantly tune an arrow such as using Stu's calc and retune the same arrow by signifcantly adding wt up front where the dynamic spine is ~30#'s less than the bow's required spine.

My deduction is that the same arrow can be properly tuned at two significantly different final arrow weights.

[buckeye_hunter]

All I want is an arrow that shoots true and passes all the way through a critter!

Good work Shawn and great thread! I think I will order the Heritage 90's instead of the 150's.....

Well, unless I go to bamboo. Any recommendations there guys?

[Shawn Leonard]

The same arrow may be able to be tuned but not at the same length. I can get most any spine to fly well out of my bows by changing length and adding the right amount of point weight. I just had a PM from a well respected sponsor on here and we both tune the same way. I cut everything to 29-29.5"s and get the arrow tuned by adding the right amount of point weight. We both agree however we have to be close on the spine in the first place. In other words, I shoot 50-56# bows at my 28.5" draw, I may start with a .400 spine and a .500 spine but never a 340 or 300 spine as I would have to add a ridiculous amount of weight to get them to tune. Great stuff from everyone, gets people thinking! Shawn

[Friend]

350 and 300 shafts weighing 6.7 and 6.9 gpi respectively present the opportuninty of piling on the front end wt and still have a moderate over-all final arrow wt.

[Shawn Leonard]

Friend no doubt but out of the poundage I shoot and the length of arrow I like I would need 500 plus grains of arrow weight to get the flight I want. Should also say I like an arrow around 9gpp as well.  Shawn

[BSBD]

Shawn,

You're completely wrong about your recommendations on my setup and you may be steering people in the wrong direction with your advice.

I've owned at least as many bows as you and have probably been hunting longer. You stated that you're 100% sure that I need a 400 spine arrow like you but you shoot 10#'s less weight. I think you just may have gotten a little confused with all of the posts.

I bareshaft tune all of the time and keep a bareshaft in my quiver everytime I shoot targets or go roving. A 400 spine bareshaft is unpredictable out of the bows mentioned because of the weak spine causing erratic flight.

If you've never tried it you may benefit from stripping the feathers off of your arrows before you begin any other tuning. This also helps with a clean consistent release.

Good luck.

[tenbrook]

I shoot the AD Trad Lites through all my bows.  They are all about 50# at my 29.5" draw. I Leave em' full length and add a 100 gr. insert and a 175 gr. Zwickey Broadhead.  3 X 5" sheild cut fletching.

They seem to fly great for me.

My question is do you think that AD has their recommendation for trad bows correct?

Also what do you think of these shafts in general?

Thanks Shawn!    

Tenbrook

 

AD Traditional Shaft Specs

Spine: 55-70# @ 28"
Overall weight: 355 gr ± 5 grains, no GPI due to taper design
Straightness: ± .005"

Traditional Lite Shaft Specs

Spine: 35-55# @ 28"
Overall weight: 307 gr ± 5 grains, no GPI due to taper design
Straightness: ± .005

[L82HUNT]

I've been hunting with the same bow for a while(although I shoot others).  Its a Widow PSA 58" and 60@28 , I draw about 27+  so 58#'s at my draw.  I have shot Easton Axis 340's 28.5/8" bop, 100 grain brass insert and 175 grain head out of it for 3 years.  In that time I've taken elk, bear, turkey, deer, even a ram with it.  So I wanted to see how it bare shafted.

  Setup was 25 yds on my range finder.

Shooting a 2" wide simmions, a bareshaft with a wrap on it and a field point.

The red fletched arrow with the broadhead struck a couple inches high, while the bare shaft and field point both struck a 1" low.

 Is this tuned enough.

[Shawn Leonard]

Sorry BDSD, I think you are the one confused, I don't think you have a clue. Obviously you have to re-read my posts, I shoot a .500 spine not a .400 spine     I can shoot a .400 spine but I have to add too much weight up front and I like an arrow around 9gpp. As I said people can and do get away with a lot less spine than they think they can. Never said your set-up would not shoot, just that your experience is different. Lots of folks doing what I am doing, more so than what you are reccomending so do as you like and as I said listen to who you like.  We agree to disagree as do many others. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

tenbrook, those tapered shafts are great, fly out of a wider range of bow weights than most. 275 up front out of a basic .500 deflection, sounds good too me! Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

L82Hunt, works for you but try a .400 spine set -up the same way and tell us what ya think. Bet it flies very nice for ya. Shawn

[Rob DiStefano]

troy's on the money, as expected.  the physical properties of how the shelf is cut with regards to the centerline of the riser is extremely important when in conjunction with dynamic arrow spine.  then add in the shooter's form consistency, or lack thereof.

after spending too much money and time testing out a variety of carbon shafts/arrows about 10 years ago, i realized that the static and dynamic spine of carbon shafting is completely different than the spine ratings of aluminium, fiberglass and wood shafting.  

i shoot a variety of 50-55# longbows that includes string follow hill style, mild r/d hybrid and aggressive r/d hybrid.  the carbon that works best for me are the weak ones and that means .500 spine at 29.5" long from depth of nock to the insert and a good 200 to 300 grains of front end.  all arrows are 10-12gpp, with either slight offset 4" low-pro banana 4-fletch, or hefty helical 5.25" custom fat shield 3-fletch.  i'm not even gonna get into foc numbers.

imho, all this business of what arrows work best out of what bow for what archer still comes down to personal trialing and your standards of arrow flight and consistent accuracy.  all the rap and charts and software and whatnot ain't gonna be as good as hand's on testing, and there are some dues to be paid, and for the most part there is no free lunch.  enjoy the journey.

[Shawn Leonard]

Rob, agreed and stated that there are a ton of factors. I posted this to get guys thinking and giving people a starting point on one simple concept. I find over the years this advise if taken saves folks quite a bit of money by getting them in the ballpark, there are many variables but if you get close and are not one or two spine off from what you need, you can get an arrow to tune by just playng with the length a tad at a time and point weight. Rob, your experience reflects what I am saying, a lot of guys would say with your R/D LBs that you would have a way weak shaft but you and I know better. Shawn