Never too old to rethink things???

[Joe Subler]

My wife broke her wrist Friday so I was helping around the house this morning and I had a hunting show on TV but wasn't paying too much attention to it until they did an interview with Ted Nugent and he said something that I had kinda forgotten.  Ted had remarked that game biologists make determinations on how many tags to sell based on sustainability of land vs deer populations and it is almost our obligation to fill those tags to keep deer herds in check.  I have preached for years that hunting is a great management tool but, in recent years, have passed up deer and not filled tags because I just didn't feel like shooting something at that time.  I had forgotten the fact that my unused tag was an instrument that should have been used to help keep the herd in check.  Maybe at my age (I will turn 61 in a few weeks) I have been getting lazy but I have resigned myself to the thought that, this year, I will be filling a tag at the very first opportunity, not only for some tasty meat but also to help herd management in our area.  Who knew that at my age Ted Nugent would make me rethink some things about hunting  
 
Cheers,
Joe

[JL]

I like Ted, always have. He calls it the way he see's it and tends to get questioned about his ideas and methods from time to time.

This year it looks like I'll be hunting wild wonderful W.V. The bag limits in W.V. are more restrictive then they are where I live. My W.V. licence with a bow stamp will allow me to take 3 deer and a couple more if I buy additional stamps. The kids love deer burgers so I'll be looking for big bodied deer to put down (most bang for the tag, if you will). If that doesn't do it, I can bowhunt behind the house and take unlimited does (unless they changed that this year...) and another 2 bucks. When I get enough meat in the freezer, I'll be looking for a brusier...

JL

[Roadkill]

Just today I spoke to a man of means who hunts Africa often. He was getting more shafts for a Cape Buf hunt.  He says the management in Africa is also built on balance.  There is a finite amount of forage and carrying capacity is a key conept.
My son is with a friend today on the first bear hunt in NV in years. It is heavily protested by the Fornios  from lake Tahoe.  They were invited. To a ranch that has bear damage problems. The game cameras often more than 1big bear in the same frame.  It is a limited hunt and shuts down after 6 females are harvested.  They did the research to know carrying capacity.

[Killdeer]

Hey Joe, Ted's older than you are.

K~   :D

[NY Yankee]

Ted knows his stuff, that's for sure and for certain. I'm surprised some of the jealous ones haven't been on to tell us what a jerk and hypocrite he is.

[frank bullitt]

Yes Joe, Ted or not, I had this same thought a couple years ago!

 I passed a young doe as I was stalking to my stand one afternoon. I had at least 3 opportunities to shoot her, but passed and observed her feed at the edge of a cornfield.

Later, I thought of the reasoning, and remembered what I had read years ealier, about what those who had fought so hard, to obtain our Bowhunting seasons in the past!

A reason to take an animal to maintain a healthy herd for all to enjoy, or for "I" to wait and harvest a better animal! A line to draw?

[Ranger44]

One thing to remember about those limits is that there are also a lot more other stats used by the biologists.  I can use my area of MN as an example.  The limit has varied over the last few years from one deer to two deer to five deer.  Always just one buck. They know that not everyone will fill five tags even if it is allowed.  

The last stats I saw showed that even with a five deer limit the average hunter does not take more than two deer.  There are a lot of formulas used to figure this stuff out but weather and so many other factors can sometimes make it a crap shoot for just one year.  When it comes to archery there are just beginning to be enough archery taken deer to even consider them in the formula.  Most of the management is done via the firearms season.  One bad winter can change everything.

This year I can take up to five deer if I want.    Two would be fine and three a bonus.

[Hot Hap]

Well Joe, in ILLinois last year they gave out 631,830 deer tags. With a herd estimated at 800,000, if everyone took the attitude that it was their duty to fill their tags well.....

Hap

[Joe Subler]

I know what you mean Hap and Ranger.  The problem is that most biologists pad the tag number knowing that some tags will be unfilled for reasons such as not seeing game, game not close enough for a shot and missing shots (at least that is what I have been told by a biologist).  They also figure that most people who buy tags can not fill all the tags they buy, but I doubt they factor in that people will buy the tag and, for no reason, just let a harvestable deer keep on walkin'.  In my area you can get a tag for either sex but can also get a tag for an antlerless deer so most guys purchase both at the beginning of the season so they can shoot a doe and/or a buck.  In my case I wasn't holding out for a buck and had a doe tag but just decided to let the doe's and the bucks walk by.  I guess I was behaving like more of a sightseer than a hunter.  Maybe I'm being a bit hard on myself but it did cause me to rethink my responsibility as a game manager but I will be remembering that responsibility this year.  Just sayin  

Joe

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

I know here in Nebraska they factor in a success ratio and calculate overage to allow for it.

If they do seriously look at the reasons tags are not filled, I'll bet they consider all of them, just not the ones you mentioned or someone else thought of..
That really gets into micro managing and of little use for them..
If you want to let a deer walk, for "Any" reason.. Do so and don't feel guilty.. It just means some other hunter may get a chance to hunt next year

[easyup]

Game and Fish do all they can to support quality hunting/fishing as our money is the major factor in supporting their livelihoods.  As said well above whether you take a animal or not is not terribly important.  That said one of the most effective things you can do is reply to the post hunt surveys and encourage others to do the same.  This data along with counts, winter weather, etc. are very important management tools.

[DanB]

For the last 4 years, I have had the privilege of
hunting my few acres of land plus two adjoining properties totaling about 120 acres.  I help maintain and stock 3 ponds on the land and keep fire and logging roads open.  The weather over the last three years has fluctuated drastically and has affected the bear and deer populations. This year, both species are stressed tremendously. In my hunting zone this year the deer limit is low (3 vs 5 state wide tags), and bear hunting has be suspended.  There have been years that I have filled all my tags because I feel the population in my area warrants it and other years that I don't.

"Uncle Ted" has some valid points and some very controversial ones.  Each hunter/sportsman has an obligation to consider all the facts as they apply to their area in making a decision to pass or take game.

[sticksnstones]

I thought about this pretty hard last fall as I was looking at two areas to hunt. The first one was close to town but had a really thin deer population, the other was a long way away but it's overrun with them.

I had decided for the close area I should try for one dry doe or immature buck as that would help the herd grow. For the other area taking a couple yearling does would make the highest impact over the next few years.

Turns out I never got a shot off so it didn't matter, but I think it's good to think about these things.