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Author Topic: Scouting Help  (Read 547 times)

Offline emt137

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Scouting Help
« on: August 22, 2011, 09:16:00 PM »
Hi Guys,

I've been shooting traditional archery the last couple months and have never really been hunting.  I had been planning on my first deer season for next year, but have been told many times I need to go this year.     :biglaugh:    I have private property I have permission to hunt on that is owned by family.  Part of it is farmed (corn, wheat, beans) and part of it is stands of trees.  There are a couple creeks running through the property and in the area in general.  Only one other person is allowed to hunt this property so pressure is very low.

I'd like to start scouting whether I go hunting this season or not.  As I have never done anything like this before I could use some help as to what to look for.  Any kind of tips, tricks, etc.  What do deer look for?  I imagine it's pretty close to humans...food, water, shelter.

Opening season is in the beginning of October.  Is it too late to start?  I appreciate any and all help and advice you can give me!

Pat
"For man only stays human by preserving large patches of simplicity in his life, while the tendency of many modern inventions...is to weaken his consciousness, dull his curiosity, and, in general, drive him nearer to the animals." -George Orwell

Offline jonsimoneau

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 10:52:00 PM »
Hey Bud.  As far as scouting goes...the very first thing I would do is cover every inch of the property on foot.  Look for densities of cover.  By this I mean...pay attention to the thickest areas on the property. The best time to do this is after season in the winter but it can be done anytime of the year.  Pay attention to where you jump deer.  If you jump a deer...from its bed....remember where you jumped it and write down all conditions.  Wind direction...being most important, but also temperature...time of day....etc. Hunt those areas the next season when conditions are similar.
    If there are bean fields adjacent to the timber...now is THE BEST time of the year to see what deer are available in the area...by sitting on the edge of the field in a spot where you can see the whole field...or as much of it as possible.  I prefer to get out there and in position by no later than 5:30 at this time of year.  Keep in mind...that while you may see alot of deer really hitting the beans right now...they will not touch them once they turn brown (which normally occurs before season).  When this happens, you need to find the next best food source.  Acorns from white oaks will trump all food sources during hunting season.  Next will be fallen maple leaves, which normally happens around mid-october in Illinois.  Corn will then be the next major food source.  
   The trick is...to figure out which food source is closest to where the deer are bedding at (which will normally be the thickest areas on the property).  Don't spend too much time hunting over the actual food source.  During season..most of the time...the deer will not use them untill after dark.  Instead...setup between the bedding area and the feeding area, and as close to the bedding area as you can get without spooking the deer residing there.  
   During November, your best strategy will be to sit in stands located in the best terrain features.  Read Gene Wensels book called "Buckskin and Bone" to learn how to identify and hunt these locations.  Then scout them all on foot.
   Around Thanksgiving...in Illinois...the main focus again shifts back to food.  If there are any standing beans in the area...you are in luck..because the deer will pound them at this time of year.  Normally...this does not happen...so you will again have to determine where the deer are feeding...and again, you will need to have a good idea of where they are bedding.
    During most of the season...deer spend 90% of their time in a bedding area during daylight hours.  So hunting as close to a bedding area as you possibly can without alerting the deer is a tactic that works the entire season.  Much easier said than done!
   Don't hunt the same stand more than twice in a row....no matter how tempting it may be.  You are better off to let stands or hunting spots rest at least two weeks between sits.  The deer can smell every footstep you take in the woods for at least a week under favorable conditions.  They may not be able to reason, but deer do remember these things.
   The biggest thing I can say..is have fun out there!  Do not try to hold your standards up to what you see on the hunting shows on T.V. since most of the time, these scenarios are unrealistic for 99% of the hunters out there.
Learn what deer are available in your area and go from there.  Don't be picky when you first start.  Take a few deer, and up your standards after you have some experience.
    Accept the fact that you will miss...get buck fever...etc.  All of these things seem like a negative when you are getting started...but when you finally pull it off, you will know you did it the right way, and the feeling of accomplishment will be beyond your wildest dreams.
    Resist the temptation to make the sport easier by abusing technology.  This only tarnishes the accomplishment of your goals.
    If you have buddies who hunt with easier weapons...do not be detered by the fact that they will often be more efficient.  Know that you are doing it the right way...the way it has been done for thousands of years...and take the good with the bad.  Learn from the experience.  Enjoy the journey you will go on to achieve success.

Online wooddamon1

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 11:10:00 PM »
'nuff said...
"The history of the bow and arrow is the history of mankind..."-Fred Bear

Offline KodiakMag

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 08:34:00 AM »
Yeah, Jon covered it.
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"Stay calm, Pick a spot."

Zwickey, the 1911 of Broadheads.
->>>-------->

Offline Bowwild

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 09:45:00 AM »
Jon covered a lot. Follow his advice and you'll do well.

Here's a bit more.

Your property sounds large so the advice about resting stands is likely possible for you. I kept a diary for two years on an 1,100 acre area I hunted in Northern Indiana. Sure enough deer sightings declined daily once I started hunting a stand.

Some folks have limited places to hunt and rotating or resting stands is more difficult especially if you like to hunt every day or two like I do. I spent two years hunting only on 10 acres (Missouri) and had only 3 stand locations. I killed as many deer as I wanted ..2-3/year.

When hunting agricultural areas I like corn best, especially standing corn. Soy beans can get good after the beans are picked if the farmer doesn't fall plow.  If your family can refrain from fall-plowing or simply chisel plow your ag field source won't become a desert quite so soon.

I look for pinch points in the cover where topography or fences makes it easier for deer to travel certain areas while remaining under cover. Imagine the ag field is full of paint-ball dudes and they are after you. You want to sneak around he edges to steal their flag! If I'm hunting "any deer" I prefer to stay within bow range of the edge of the field because deer commonly walk the perimeters for 20-30 yards when they enter or are leaving the field. I've found field corners (inside) to be terrific. You can even manufacture (with permission) some deer entry points by tying down top strands of a fence to make it easier to jump over. Yes, when they have to deer have been documented to jump over 10' fences.

I really pay attention to the type of tree or trees I put my stand in. I want to remain well hidden. I like cedars (which you likely don't have)trees with multiple boles or lots of big limbs. Remember that leaf cover you enjoyed on October 1st will disappear before Halloween. When not sure about cutting a limb to create a shooting lane use rope to tie it back. You can erase the decision if it doesn't work out. Once cut, a limb that would have been more important to hide you than a window to shoot through, can't be uncut.

In areas where bedding and feeding areas are quite distinct, such as agricultural areas (not so easy where I hunt these days though) paying attention to prevailing wind is important. Your winds are going to be from the west to NW most of deer season. East will be very rare. South can happen too. Sometimes 20 yards is all you need to have an alternate stand for the wind. Some stands will be best in the AM and some in the PM. I prefer a calm, steady wind over a calm day and I abhor a windy day (greater than 15 mph).

Look for deer trails that parallel the ag fields. If you find trails that intersect, the more the better, you are getting warm. Of course make sure you can approach such areas without disturbing bedded (in the afternoon) or feeding (AM) like Jon said. It is common not to be able to hunt some stands in either the AM or PM because of where you expect the deer to be.

You probably know your area well. Sometimes it is very helpful to get an aerial photograph of your hunting area that shows the adjacent properties. I worked with these photos for years as a wildlife biologist and you can often predict very accurately exactly where deer trails should be.

This first season you might do well to select stand sites (related to what Jon advised above) that allow you to see more area even if not in the best ambush spot. This will allow you to scout from your stand. Many times I've found better spots by paying attention to patterns I see from my stands.

Even as early as the first half of October you are going to find sign where deer have pawed the earth (scrapes) or rubbed their antlers (rubs). Some of those rubs are made in August when velvet is falling. The aggressive ones are made in late October when bucks are getting ready for the rut. I wouldn't hunt over such places unless they are near travel corridors we've discussed above. I've always found the larger the tree rubbed the larger and stronger the deer. The buck likes to push the tree around a bit but not get beat up by it. Trees larger than your wrist are exciting and larger than 6" in diameter could be a bruiser!

Finally, I like to be in my stand at least 30 minutes before light. I want in the stand and quiet well before I expect deer to be moving. I like to get down when I can no longer see to shoot (adhere to legal shooting hours though). I might exit a stand 5 minutes early if no deer are around, especially if hunting near ag fields so I don't get caught in the tree with deer in the field that will see or hear me leaving.

Jon's advice about hunting objectives is sage. You are hunting for yourself. What you want to kill and how you want to kill it should be your objective (within the law). I know folks who adopt the standards of their friends or other folks they respect. That's fine if you want but lots of great experience can be gained shooting does, small bucks and even fawns. The more experience you gain the better ready you will be for that Bullwinkle when he shows up.

The way you choose to hunt and the equipment you choose to use is your decision (again according to the law). Your decision makes you good enough for you but no better than the hunter who makes other decisions. You are no more right than the compound, shotgun, or rifle hunter and they no  more wrong. Just different.  More non-bowhunters are turned off or against us when we come across as somehow better. Sure, after a few years hunting with a bow (if you do it a lot -- the national average is 23 hunts/year for a bowhuner and around 7 for a gun hunter)you are going to likely know much more about deer behavior, scouting, and deer hunting than those who don't bow hunt. You are going to cherish the other sights, sounds, and smells in the deer woods than the average hunter as well.  But, I much prefer to relish those differences in private or with my like-minded bowhunting buddies than pointing them out to my gun-hunter-only friends and family. This is one of those times in life when less is indeed more.

Good luck. Always let someone know you are going hunting, where you'll likely be (another good use for aerial photos)and when you should return. Be sure to properly rope in before you climb, and stay harnessed in that stand. A third of bowhunters will eventually fall from a stand. Ten percent of those who fall will be permanently disabled or die.

If you have a chance to take a Bowhunter Education course (by NBEF) be sure to do it.

One more tip. This will seem like cheating to some. While you prowl your property be on the look for remnants of tree stands (boards in trees, old steps). These are often residue from gun hunters. They could be worthless. However, you never know, that old dilapidated stand may have been erected by a veteran deer hunter who knew this property and its deer very well.  He might have killed deer after deer from it. Of course use a quality, commercially made safe stand instead of handmade carpentry jobs.

Offline rjackson

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 09:47:00 AM »
Well said!!!! cant add to that.

Offline KodiakMag

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 09:52:00 AM »
Oh, and most of all patience. :)
55# Kodiak Mag

"Stay calm, Pick a spot."

Zwickey, the 1911 of Broadheads.
->>>-------->

Offline hardwaymike

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2011, 10:08:00 AM »
Do what was mentioned above but also get ahold of the other guy that has permission and see if he can help you out any. Chances are that if he has hunted there before, he can help you out alot and keep you out of the bedding areas so as to not push the deer out of your area. After that just get out and practice as much as possible. When October rolls around shoot the first legal deer that gives you a chance. I say this because the venison is so delicious that it will give you the "drive" to get back out there and learn as much as you can so as to be ready for the next one,lol. Good luck this year, Mike.
"A road is a dagger placed in the heart of a wilderness." -William O. Douglas

Believe it or not the "HARDWAY" is often the EASIER way(in hindsight)!
2xOIF VET
Bear Cub #48@28"

Offline Bowwild

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 10:51:00 AM »
Good catch Hardwaymike!

I totally missed that someone else is also hunting the property!  Important detail. For example it does little good to rest a spot if other hunters climb in when you aren't there.

Offline KodiakMag

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 10:52:00 AM »
And remember the journey is the real trophy.
55# Kodiak Mag

"Stay calm, Pick a spot."

Zwickey, the 1911 of Broadheads.
->>>-------->

Online GRAYBEARD

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 11:11:00 AM »
After your initial, detailed survey try to use binoculars to minimize intrusion. Keep a log book!
TGMM Family of the Bow; Make every heartbeat a party, the next one is not guaranteed!

Offline Blaino

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 11:40:00 AM »
between Jon and Roy you got all you need!! wow...
"It's not the trophy, but the race. It's not the quarry,
but the chase."

Offline jamesh76

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 11:58:00 AM »
do a screen capture on Google Maps and post it here. It would allow us to help you locate possible pinch points.
-------------------------------
James Haney
Spring Hill, KS
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USMC Infantry 1996-2001
1st Marine Division
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Offline emt137

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 04:20:00 PM »
Guys,

This is perfect information and exactly what I was looking for.  Thank you very much for the help and advice.  I forgot to mention I will be ground hunting.  How does that change what I look for, if it does?

Is there certain things or features deer seem to favor in regards to bedding spots?  Will they use the same spot over and over, or will they change from one place to the next?

Thanks again!
Pat
"For man only stays human by preserving large patches of simplicity in his life, while the tendency of many modern inventions...is to weaken his consciousness, dull his curiosity, and, in general, drive him nearer to the animals." -George Orwell

Offline Bowwild

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 05:14:00 PM »
Yikes! Ground hunting changes a lot for me. I only do it when turkey hunting although I see deer from my turkey blinds. And in bow range.

I think cover, and topography are going to be more important when selecting blind sites. Of course scouting won't change.  I'd get that/those blinds out early and brush them in good because deer notice differences just like you would in  your yard.  

You should stay back from the trails at bow range. I even do this when in trees. I don't like deer to walk under me -- terrible recurve shot.

I would hunt from the ground if I had no other choice. However, I feel like I give up so many pros when I hit the ground. The only things I can think of being better on the ground are; safety, mobility, and the shot itself. Scent control, movement, and your ability to see are better (in many situations) from the trees.

But, if the ground is your choice have at it. There are folks here who are very successful from the ground. I have a lot of respect for folks that can do it well. And for the folks who don't use blinds or tree stands....they surely have Ninja merit badges!

Offline 3arrows

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Re: Scouting Help
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 11:55:00 PM »
Pat,try to keep the deer from smelling you.Find places where they can't smell you.[DOWN WIND]When on stand don't move much and spend most of your time hunting in November.Deer will doubt their eyes and ears but never their NOSE.Don't hunt from the same spot twice,they will find out after you leave.Learn from your mistakes and have FUN.
Believe in nothing,fall for anything

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