TBM Article says it all

[Scott Teaschner]

Now where getting to the core! Take Dick Robertson. He is a very talented man. He is a very acomplished hunter. I am sure he has his own oppions and strong. He has a lot of EXPERIANCE! He choses a more difficult aproach to challange himself. No I do not know the man personaly but I doubt he would make any such comments to put down other ethical means of harvesting game. If you go to his store in Lewiston MT you will see carbon arrows for sale. All I can say is use some common sense when it comes to these topics.
Scott Teaschner

[rholzie]

It's unavoidable...technology has made possible a plethagy of choices in which to experiment with. I'd be willing to bet that if some keen inventor discovered that putting carbon in the limbs of bows back in Knottingham enhanced the performance...Robin Hood himself would've been first in line! To each their own! Just grab a stick and a "projectile" and go out and have fun! IMHO...I think people are way too obsessed with weights/gr., carbons, woodies, and all the other "specifics" of having that "perfect" arrow flight!

[Turkeys Fear Me]

Originally posted by rholzie:
It's unavoidable...technology has made possible a plethagy of choices in which to experiment with.

What is a "plethagy?"  Is that a new kind of carbon?

 

[kpete]

No, turkeys fear me, plethagy is what you catch if the thread goes over 6 pages!

[rholzie]

OK Jeff, "plethagy" ok, let's see now...ummmmmmmm...mmmmm...mmmm...I got it...it means A LOT!...you know like "plethora", same thing! Hey I thought it was a word! I even used it in scrabble once! duh! I think it's time to go shoot a plethagy of arrows now! LOL  

[Scott Teaschner]

I was going through all the posts from the start. One very intresting thing I noticed is Pasquinell who started the thread never once said any thing more than I thought it would raise more attention in the third post. He also started the same topic in Wisconsin Traditional Archers in the state trad. organ.. It seems to me he got what he wanted to stir the pot and sit back and watch. Why would someone start such a topic in two areas and never say one more word? Was he specificly looking for a reaction? If it was it looks like he got it. I just wonder why he never said another word? You would think if it was important enough for him to state his ground and start the topic he would at least participate!
Scott Teaschner

[ChuckC]

Wow Scott. . . do you agree with anybody here ?

Maybe he got embarrased by all the yelling and name calling and quietly bowed out.

Moderators ?

ChuckC

[Scott Teaschner]

I never really seen any yelling going on ChuckC. But when some touches on some prety sensitive subjects I just wonder?
Scott Teaschner

[jhg]

I had a girlfriend like this once. You were in trouble if you said something...
And you were in trouble if you kept quiet.

She would conjure up all sorts of "reasons" why I was quiet and all of them were negative.

Its how she saw the world. And nothing was ever going to change that.

Joshua

[smoke1953]

At some point in every conversation it's just best to say nothing more.

[kojac]

The racing industry seperates its classes
Stock--Modified--Open. (the lower classes can run up but the upper class can't run down)

Why is it so bad that the Hunting Industry can't do the same and put some boundries on a weapon/s to be used in a specific season.  

Bow(stock)--Shotgun/muzzle loader(modified)--Rifle/crossbow(open) the lower season can hunt the upper season but the upper can't hunt the lower. The lines between these season can not be the least bit fuzzy.  Wanting to clean this fuzzy-ness up should not make one an Elitist.

If the hunters don't the manufacture are going to keep moving the line little by little.

[jim ratcliff]

Personally I feel the article was informative and opinionated! I will not knock a fellow because of his gear...it may be all he has or in his eyes its his perfect weapon. Will my leafy suit make me less of a trad hunter?or should I sale my 7mm rum and purchase a hawken riffle? To each his own...I've never had a trail camera but with the way I work I think one would help my sucess since I don't get to scout a lot. Between my long bow and recurve I've got less than 400.00 invested but I will be out there giving it my all come oct.1st!..oh yeah...woodsmans in the quiver hooked to carbon arrows,leafy suit..waterproof boots and all!

[Hit-or-Miss]

The man wrote a well written, thought provoking article, just what we expect to read in TBM. It obviously made people think AND stirred the pot. That is what Teachers, GOOD Teachers, do in class. They engage, inspire and encourage Socratic Dialectic conversation. Good Teachers throw out a question pertaining to a given topic, some observations and facts and then leave you to ponder; is the answer black and white, or IS there a shade of grey?

[Ryan Rothhaar]

Hit-or-miss - this is the second time you've mentioned the Socratic method of debate.  I agree with you...that's a great way to assess your belief system...you are just giving this article too much credit in that regard.  The Socratic method is a debate method of asking and answering questions, of leading one to think, not dictating to one WHAT to think.  It involves gentle coaxing, not bullying.  The practitioner of the true Socratic method would rebel against the inconsistencies and hypocrisy that many in this thread mention.

Good teachers lead students to think, bad teachers dictate by rote and dogmatism.

I think we need to keep in mind too, that the author is relatively new to traditional bowhunting.  From his statement he has been at it since 1998 - 12 seasons does NOT an expert make!  Heck, with 26 seasons under my belt I get schooled by the deer constantly, my father has been chasing whitetails for nealy half a century and 18 month old does outsmart him all the time.  Kirby will learn humility if he pays attention.  Its all part of the growing/learning process.  It also serves TBM's purpose to stir the pot.  They are getting more exposure from this thread than several thousand dollar's worth of advertising would buy them.

Ryan

[Bill Carlsen]

I have some assumptions about Kirby and his ilk. First, he is probably new to the sport or very young. He is enthusiastic about it. He has found, for the moment, what he considers to be the "right way" to do it. He troubles me, not because he thinks or does what he does...he reinvents history attributing to Fred Bear, and perhaps others, certain behaviors and attitudes that those of us who grew up with Fred Bear as he himself grew and evolved know for a fact weren't true. His fantasy trad bowhunter never existed in Fred Bear, Ben Pearson or any number of the early pioneers of our sport. Jason was spot on about the equipment Bear used and his ongoing attempts to improve and modernize the sport. In fact, Port Orford cedar was the not wood of choice for arrows for many years. If you want to be hard core then shoot birch. IMO, too many who were not there when Fred and Ben where making history and "gadgets" to make the sport more palatable to the non hunting public need to do more research and get their facts straight. I shoot what I shoot because I can shoot it more accurately than other things I can shoot. And it is durable and long lived. It has nothing to do with my sense of what a "fantasy traditional bowhunter" is. I want what works best for me in the real world and allows me to make quick, clean ethical kills. Hunting/killing wild game is not an experiment. Your shooting skills, hunting skills and equipment need to be the best you can obtain or achieve. Guys like Kolby, to me, are just making noise and are not living in the real world.

[Turkeys Fear Me]

Originally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
  It also serves TBM's purpose to stir the pot.  They are getting more exposure from this thread than several thousand dollar's worth of advertising would buy them.

Ryan

While I agree with your premise, unlike in the world of pop stars and reality TV, not all exposure is good exposure.

Whenever there is an article such as this discussed in the forums, more and more people respond by saying that this is the reason they  no longer  subscribe to TBM.  There are very few "converts" from an articles like this.  For those that agree, it's preaching to the choir.  For those that disagree, it's just another point of division, or "line in the sand" as some have said.

[SELFBOW19953]

Not long ago Fred Asbell wrote a similar article in TBM about "easy" mentioning trail cams, GPS's, cell phones, etc.  I will rationalize the use of technologies that benefit me and refuse to use others, I think all of us will.  At the end of the day, I only have to live with me!!  I don't want to be held up as an example to others and I don't do things for the approval of others.  If you are in traditional archery for the appoval of others or to be idolized, I think you have the wrong ideas.  Archery is supposed to be fun.  Traditional archery immerses you deeper into the concept of living archery with a hands on approach, making your own tackle, working to perfect your form and technique, slowing down and enjoying the dedication needed to achieve a goal through hard work and effort.  I use the tackle I use for me, and me alone, for my own reasons.  All I expect from anyone else is acceptance.  My choices are just that-MY choices.  You are welcome to yours.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Wanting to draw lines doesn't make you an elitist...wanting to draw lines for others does.  That's the slippery slope.

[vermonster13]

The more lines we draw in the pie, the smaller each slice gets. There is only so much season to go around.

[swamprooter]

What is the problem with xbows, compounds, and trad equipment sharing a season? I can see differentiating between archery and gun but if it shoots an arrow with a string I really don't see what the big deal is. Xbows don't give any more advantage than compounds and I remember people fighting this same fight about compounds.  

Another thing, I shoot what I shoot because I enjoy it and it makes me happy, I could care less what anyone else shoots. I really don't understand why some people are so interested in what everyone else shoots. It seems to me a lot of people are into trad archery for all the wrong reasons. Chris