Question for other string makers and others in general?

[Oliverstacy]

I have to post a question to all the people out there and see what people think…Mod’s if this is the wrong place or not an approved topic please delete and accept my apology in advance!

No names will be given and I will try to keep the specs vague but with enough detail to help people form an opinion.

I have not built as many strings as some but I’m closing in on close to 1000 (very close) and work my butt off (most nights including weekends) to make the best possible string I can produce.

I ask the same questions for each string and make recommendations or ask questions that will help the process smooth and produce the string correctly the first time.  I then confirm each string and get the approval back on each.  I have made strings over free if I’ve missed length and didn’t catch an error on my part…I’ve done this several times.

I had a person contact me for a couple strings…both would be for X length AMO bows, same make and model.  One would be for a 55 lb bow and the other would be for a 75# bow…I only mention this as that was what I was given in my original contact info.  There was no mention of what the current material was on the bows at the time the order was placed.

I then asked my normal (standard) questions:
Actual string length measured off the bow with the loops pinched together?
Recurve or longbow?
FF approved?
Material, strand count, colors and serving wanted?
Limb width 4” down on a recurve from the string groove and 3” down on a longbow?

The response to the above was the 55# bow would be 59.5” end to end and the 75# bow would be 61.25”…again both would be for 64” AMO bows.  Again no mention of current string material and I don’t think I asked…I try to never question string length as I’m wrong more than I’m right.
I made the strings out of the same material…both were made out of D-10 and were 12-strand padded to 14 with the same serving.

After they arrived I received an email that they looked great but one didn’t fit and that the 59.5” string wouldn’t achieve the correct BH wanted.  I also was told that the problem might have been “the only thing I might have messed up was measuring the length at the correct brace, rather than untwisted”…” what do I do??”

I explained that I thought the string was a touch short but I never question them anymore…just make them to what people ask, not fool proof on my part but it works in most cases.  I explained that if they wanted a lower BH a longer string would be needed and asked if this bow was shot at a higher BH than the other.

Response was that the older string was not FF and it was B-50, which will stretch on the bow when strong… (I’ve seen it stretch 1” to 1.5” on a jig and rebound back to X length).  They responded that they needed a 60.5” string and asked if they could send the one I made back.   This was info I probably should have asked but didn’t…not sure if this was my fault for not asking.

I responded that the stretch on the bow sounds correct for Dacron based on what I’ve seen on my jig…I also explained that FF will not stretch that much if much at all.  I also asked where to go from there…also stating .25” longer than the 60.5” to be safe.

They wanted to return the string and get another one made to 60.75”.

I explained that I didn’t feel that it was an error on my part and that I wouldn’t have a use for the string already made and would charge for a new one.  I felt this wasn’t an error on my part as the steps to get the length were the steps I’ve used on all orders.

Response was that I misled them with the requested measurement process and that I should have asked for a measurement on the bow…(this is something I never do, always off the bow).  They expected me “to do right” and make a replacement string.  The also explained that the old string worked and measured 60-5/8” on the bow when strong.

What am I to do?  Should I make another one free?  I’m at a loss on this…granted I should have investigated the shorter strings length but again I try to never question string length.

Other string makers…if you don’t feel comfortable responding in public please feel free to PM me.

Thanks in advance.

Josh

[Mike Vines]

Some people are just never happy.  If I was in your shoes, I would ask for the string to be mailed back, and a full refund would be in the mail back to him, then put the strings in the give away section of this site, and never take another order from that individual again.  

Everyone goes away happy, well except for you, your out time and material, but it is a business, and the customer is always right, even when they are completely wrong.  Only problem is, that in their mind they are right, so it's best to go separate ways, and let the next guy deal with him.

Now this is just my opinion, but I do believe it will be echoed again and again.

You make a good looking string Josh, but I can honestly say I have yet to shoot one of yours.  My next order will be from you though, and yes, I will listen to your advice.

[Longspur77]

Josh, I don't know anything about a string other than it holds my arrow on.you asked me these same questions and I felt like was unsure of what I was doing but you helped me get it right. Having said that I agree with vines in that some people are never happy and that you should not get discouraged or upset because that is life. They are out there and there is not sh#$@t you can do about it. I am happy with my 2 strings I got from you and will order from you again on all my bows. I only have one now but when I do get others then they will have Olivers on them. Probably did not help you but people make me mad.if u lose him as a customer then You lose him. I will and probably already sold some strings for you from my buddies.

[jhg]

Originally posted by Oliverstacy:

...Response was that I misled them with the requested measurement process and that I should have asked for a measurement on the bow…(this is something I never do, always off the bow).  They expected me “to do right” and make a replacement string. ...

Josh, you have done nothing wrong and all the strings I have from you are not only top notch, but the ordering process is very straight forward, not to mention the fact that you are always available via email to clarify.

I work for myself. Sometimes its better to divorce yourself from a client. When they do not understand the expense or the effort that goes into a  good product, and want it for free over some technicality, watch out. You cannot win. You will never get a good referral from them no matter what you give them or what you do. This is from experience.

I stand by your strings (having several) and I stand by your open and honest business model.


Joshua

[Jon Stewart]

Like Mike said, give the person their money back after he returns your string and call it good.

I made a guy a string and gave it to him.  He wrote back and asked for a second for another bow so I made a second he then had the stones to ask for a third.
I told him the 3rd string was $30.00.  That ended that conversation.

[Looper]

I'd tell him that you made what he asked for, and you can't be responsible for his measuring errors. Tell him you'd be happy to make him another. He can use the same paypal address for payment.  If you're so inclined, maybe offer to give him a discount on the next one, if he returned the original. You might have to sit on it a while, but someone is bound to need that length at some point.

It's obvious that it's not your fault he ordered too short of a string. If he can't see that, point him to this thread, and specifically this post:

"Hey dude, you made a mistake, and asking Josh to pay for it is not cool."

[Roadkill]

Mike Vines tells it like it is. Apologize profusely and cross him off your list

[StickBowManMI]

I agree with Mike! I think that you should just required that they mail the strings back to you (at their mailing cost) and then send them a refund and write them off as a future customer. This way they cannot complain about your service. You have been more than fair with them.

[Javi]

Josh, Mike Vines is right.. and deals like this is exactly why I will never do retail service work again..

[klight]

Well I cant imagine how anyone could feel misled by you. I have over half a dozen of your strings and each time I have found you to be very thorough during the whole process. Much more thorough than a 18.00 string justifies in my opinion. Its to bad for this particular situation but keep in mind you have still got 999 happy customers.

[rluttrell]

If it were me I would ask them to send back the string they didn’t use. Refund them for all strings you received back.
I don’t know what the cost of having a string made is but I do know that some customers just stink. But hopefully they will come back and you will be ready for the next round.

[Jake Fr]

ya know josh i dont think i would loose any sleep over it get your string back refund it and tell em to find some one else from here out it sound to me like some one trying to complain bout there meal after they ate it and want another on the house it's your business and you have the right to refuse also

[azhunter]

Josh, There are 2 companies I think of when I think of EXCELLENT customer service. You and KME. You build a fantastic string. You return emails and PM's promptly. You go above and beyond to get things right. You are unbelievably fast in your deliveries. Keep up the good work. As long as you are building strings, you have my business. Don't lose any sleep. If you do business long enough you are bound to end up with a few situations like this one.
Mark

[Ragnarok Forge]

If they measured the way you told them and did it wrong then you owe them nothing. The real question is how you want to deal with this on a customer service level.  Get the string back and refund the money and write them off the customer list is the customer service way of dealing with things.  Not refunding their money and writing them off the list is the other option.  I sure wouldn't be making them another string.  That just encourages future behavior of the same type.

[Glunt]

Nothing wrong with refunding their money and parting ways, but I could certainly see a similar situation popping up again if you don't know the old string material they are measuring, and the customer isn't knowledgable on how the materials differ in stretch.

I would be inclined to offer a free or discounted string and ask the old material type in the future.  I would chalk up the lost $$ to gaining knowledge on a potential issue you can avoid in the future and hopefully getting some great PR and repeat business from a satisfied customer.  Use the returned incorrect string as a giveaway or donation and recoup the cost by getting some advertising mileage.

This was one case in 1000.  If you build 10,000 strings you can be sure it will pop up again - along with a few other scenarios you haven't thought or imagined would happen.  Its just part of business.

I've been managing customer service in one form or another for many years.  A customer that gets exactly what they expect will generally be satisfied and fairly loyal.  A customer that has a service or product issue that gets resolved beyond their expectations has good chance of becoming extremely loyal and a walking PR campaign.

One good thing about strings is replacing one for free doesn't break the bank.  The guy selling Lear jets doesn't get to use that option quite as easily.

Whether you are right or wrong or the blame is shared is part of the equation, but sometimes even when you aren't at fault the best thing for your business, your time, and your stress level is taking a little hit and move on.

[calgarychef]

Rule number 1 of business: the customer is always right.  

Rule number 2 of business: if the customer is wrong refer to rule number one.

I used to order endless loop strings frm a maker in Alberta and they were fantastic. And I told everyone to buy his strings.  When I got my long bow I wanted a flemish string and ordered two from this guy.  When the strings arrived I called him and asked why he had made endless loops instead of flemish and he answered that he "didn't make flemish strings" but that these would work just as well.  Basically I felt he had mislead me and he wouldn't correct the situation or refund my money because he had made me some stings. even if they weren't what I ordered.  I never ordered another string from him and have never recomended his business to anyone again.

You could have a lifelong customer who says nothing but good things about your business by making him happy.  It'll only cost a couple of bucks worth of string then the problem is over.  Think of the hassles for both of you if you choose the other option.

 Also if you're in business you shouldn't need to go to an internet forum to find out what's the proper way to treat your customers.  It's something that you already know but are unwilling to do beause you might be "lose this battle" with a customer.  Every time you prove to a customer that you're right and they are wrong the customer loses face, not a good way to ensure a happy customer.

What would a big company like 3R do in a situation like this? Think they would try and keep the customer based on his future spending habits?  Think they would drag their own names through the dirt in a public forum?

You're in a unique position to compete with the large companies because you can offer the best service possible and you know more about your product than anyone else.  Now go and make that customer happy, figure out his string problems so he can shoot his bow, that's all he's looking for.

[cahaba]

I would ask the customer what he wanted, a refund or another string. 99% of the time excellent customer service gets you more business. Word of mouth is the best advertisment.
Its not going to break your business to send him another string.

[Rob DiStefano]

when i was offering custom *endless* bowstrings, i never ever even mentioned the acronym "AMO".  to me, that's near worthless.  i required  specific data and measurements of a customer's old/current bowstring.

what was their current bowstring's fiber and what fiber to use for their new bowstring? - this takes into account that dacron is lots more stretchy than hmpe.

customer supplied current bowstring dimensions, all taken with "compressed loops" - this makes for uniform measuring.

string length measured both on the braced bow and off the bow as stretched on a nail with light tension - again, variables that will help with the new string's length.

   

   

   

   

armed with that data, it was fairly easy to create a very accurate length endless bowstring.  to translate the above for a flemish bowstring would be lots harder for me.

[Green]

Hey Josh - let's face it...you build some of the best strings available.  You've only built 4 for me, but everyone has been perfect and your craftsmanship flawless. You'll continue to get my string orders for a very long time.  Not to mention you've become a pretty good friend like almost everyone I deal with here on TG.

That being said....this isn't a high dollar item. If he'll ship it back, and you just have to build him one a little longer then it's not that big of a deal is it?  My first response to something like this would be to give someone my cell number and tell them when they can call.  Nothing like a phone call to get everything discussed and make it more personal.....folks appreciate your willingness to do so.

Keep doing what you're doing Josh....you do it as well as anyone!

[Rob DiStefano]

it would be great if using a bowyer's knot for the bottom limb came into vogue - then every bowstring would be the absolute perfect length, just like back in medieval times.